SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Beautiful tree Whiff. I just cannot bring myself to put our tree up yet. My youngest son will be home around 22nd December and I will get it done before he gets here. Right now I feel so down about it all. I phoned my eldest son at the weekend - No reply on either his mobile or the house phone. They can see who is ringing and choose not to answer. Yesterday morning he texted and asked if I had rang. I said yes and I would ring him some time today. Now I am dreading it and he is MY eldest son! So this morning I have given myself a talking to and if he starts getting narky then I am going to ask why he cannot just phone me up and ask how I am. How hard is it!? His in-laws are all spending christmas and new year with them and not a mention of us going to see him, her or the grand kids. I also decided that I would just give them cash and vouchers. Why should I trails the shops/internet for presents when they basically couldn’t care less if I alive or dead. I could scream today and really fed up with it all. Also it is 7 years today since I last saw or spoke to my daughter. So sad. Thank goodness for my youngest son. Without him life would be non existent. Sorry I am down and rambling on. Take care and stay safe everyone.

Whiff your tree is lovely, love the fairy on the top ?
Purplepixie... sadly I feel as you do, it spoils every Christmas that I should be enjoying with the people who do care if I'm dead or alive, I hope your phonecall wasn't too stressful.?

Yesterday was a day of everything going wrong culminating in burning my finger while cooking the Sunday roast I didn't have the energy to do on Sunday.

It was a relief to go to bed and put an end to it.

The pic of your Christmas tree cheered me up Whiff he did a fabulous job didn't he. Feeling a lot better today so we've put our decs put up. We usually have them up by now so it was good to get it done today.

I told DS a few years ago that I didn't want to talk about or hear about his brother Yogin unless he was worried or upset about something and needed to let us know. He very occasionally mentions his name during a conversation but never any details, for which I'm grateful.

You must be in two minds about the moving date, wanting to get it done but not on top of Christmas.

Other relations having contact with our EAC is a difficult one Spring, their choice of course and where I understand DS staying in touch with his brother, and am glad he is, I never understood my m.i.l.

If I saw how heart broken my son was about being cut out of his son's and only GC's lives, I wouldn't have wanted to see him either. I never felt any animosity toward her for her decision but never really understood it.

Oh I know Onwardandupward it did make me laugh, I mean if you estrange the GP's who were going to help out with child care for free, talked of sleepovers if they ever wanted any, so they could have an undisturbed night and a lie in in the morning, what do you expect. You couldn't make it up could you.

Hope you're feeling OK after your booster Whiff. I actually started this post this morning, so after posting, if I've missed anything I'll be back.

My heart goes out to you Purplepixie. Sorry, don't know what else to say x.

Whiff, thanks for sharing. It sounds like you have so many wonderful Christmas memories.

I am grateful for happy memories and also for my son, Mr O and pets who I will get to spend it with.

Smileless hope your finger is better.
Yes, what did they think would happen if they estranged? Fancy daring to complain about a loss of the benefits when they pulled the plug on contact! It sounds a bit like playing for attention and sympathy. What did he think his Grandma would do, offer her childcare services?! So cheeky!

Yes, Smileless I would really struggle with my Mother or MiL seeing my EAC if I could not see them. It's not very loyal, is it. I suppose there was a bond there and she took what she could get. Perhaps she was worried about losing him altogether if she pushed him to have contact? Selfish though.

So sorry Purplepixie I also am thankful for my youngest son.

Yes I think that was it Onward, she was worried she'd never see him again. I couldn't do that though, my child would always be more important to me than my GC and GGC.

That's difficult Smileless . I felt like I bonded with my GC because they were living here. It was a real wrench to lose them, even though I would rather not live together. I'm not sure I could choose between my child and my GC, but everyone's different. I wouldn't like to go behind anyone's back so it would be very awkward if I was put into that position.

I suppose it's a stronger bond with your child, at least you'd hope so.

Morning all

I'm trying Silver but it's hard! Really hope we don't get a moving day before Xmas as we will be in such a mess for Xmas if we do. I wrapped up all the presents yesterday and wrote most of the cards, will do the last of the cards this morning and post them, so at least that's out of the way. Ordered 3 gifts yesterday online, so as soon as they arrive I'll wrap them.

Ann. are hard Pixie On the first Xmas of estrangement I said 'no Xmas this year' but in the end I did. Got a lovely real tree & put the deco up, felt better afterwards, seeing all the pretty lights & trinkets. I still put a felt Xmas tree on my tree each year that my estranged daughter made at school when she was little.

Hope your finger is better this morning Smileless and hope the dinner was worth it! I feel like that sometimes S just had enough of the day, so go to bed really early. Crossing my fingers & toes that I hear nothing in these next 3 days about moving, cos then it will definitely be after Xmas, that would be such a relief and I can then go and purchase my Xmas tree, which I'm longing to put up.

You've done well Yoginimeisje getting all your wrapping done and writing most of the cards!

I found it helped having the tree and all the pretty decorations up. It motivates me to write cards and wrap gifts. I've been putting them in gift bags as they arrive (shopped online) so although they're not actually wrapped, I have a bag for each person I'm buying for. I have only written some of the cards, but will do more soon.

Hope you get good news about your move soon so you can relax and enjoy putting your tree up! I also go to bed early if I'm having a bad day. It's like I make it stop by going to bed!

Well, I phoned my eldest son’s house and mobile and no answer, typical as they look to see who it is and then decide if they want to talk to them. What message is that to give to my grand kids? I am annoyed. Then later on last night around 7.30pm I decided to give it another go. My friend suggested putting 141 in front of the number but I am not prepared to do that. Again the house phone was not answered but my eldest son did answer his mobile. I was chuffed then he said that they were just heading out - something to do with having to drop my grand son (15 years old) off somewhere. So the call was cut short. I didnt get a chance to ask how they are or for them to ask how I am. I felt gutted but at least I have tried.

This morning I have wrote out their cards and put money in each one and suggest to DH that maybe we could have a ride over there one night after 19th December and drop them in. I looked on the internet and discovered that their school doesn’t break up until 21st December. They are heading to their holiday home after that. A short window but I cannot not see them before christmas but it doesn’t seem to bother them. What have I done to deserve this? Today I feel a bit panicked inside as it doesn’t look like I will see my daughters 2 girls before Christmas. I am fed up.

It’s all so sad. To have loving parents and reject them because of a perceived slight or injustice instead of talking about it, is ridiculous. Are they perfect. Obviously not or they wouldn’t do what they did, Try as hard as you can to make a happy life without them, taken me years and it wasn’t worth the tears, nothing altered. Try to believe in yourself.

Oh dear. So much sadness on here. I really feel for you all. Estrangement Is bad enough at any time of the year but as we head to Christmas it is so much harder to bear.

Well I'm went to tea and it went well enough. They invited me to sleep overnight too, so I did. Still no apology or explanation, both of them blithely behaving as if nothing has happened. I let it pass. No point raking over the coals however, I have neither forgiven or forgotten and I never will. I am always on the alert now and I sensed there was an ulterior motive behind this sudden display of hospitality.

Sure enough the next day they coolly invited themselves to my house for Christmas Day. I was a bit taken aback, and didn't have time to come up with anything like a suitable refusal so I acquiesced. I couldnt see a way out of it without causing a major upset and risking madams wrath so I said they could come. That doesn't mean I'm happy though.

I discussed it with my younger son and his girlfriend on Monday night. Neither he nor his girlfriend want to be in their presence on Christmas Day so we have made other arrangements. I can't say as I blame them, why should they have to walk on eggshells, especially as my eldest son has practically ignored his brother for the past year.

What a todo.

I've had a good heart to heart with my youngest son and both he and his girlfriend fully appreciate my predicament, that I am only putting up with all this nonsense so that I can get to see my grandchildren.

However, I feel really upset that they have had to change their plans like this. I was in floods of tears on Monday night when we were talking it through, but bless their hearts they were as loving and as supportive as ever. They understand that I want to have a relationship with my grandchildren.

But my goodness at what a cost. It feels like not only me but my younger son and his girlfriend are paying a very high price. I'm sick of it.

I am appalled at their selfishness and their sense of entitlement, the cool assumption that they would be welcome, after all that had gone before. Well I will do my bit and host them but if I'm honest I'm not remotely happy. I would much rather not.

I haven't told my eldest son that his brother and girlfriend won't be joining us for Christmas Day. Let him find out on the day, let him squirm and hopefully feel guilty that their actions have denied me the company of my youngest son on Christmas Day. Although tbh I am beginning to doubt that he has any empathy or finer feelings left for anyone else so doubt that his conscience will bother him.

What a pretty pass. Honestly there are times when I wonder if it's worth it, whether I should just sever ties and cut my losses. Just accept the loss of my grandchildren and not even try to have a relationship with them. I really am in a quandary.

Half of my still believes this "truce" is only temporary anyway and that it is only a question of time before Madam makes her move.

On a lighter note, I have made a start on my Christmas decorations. Still got a few more gifts to buy but almost done.

? and hugs to all.

DerbyshireLass I know you want to see your grandchildren Christmas day. And your younger son and girlfriend are very supportive which is so loving of them and knowing they put you first. It's wonderful for you knowing they love you so much and will always be there for you.

But I would have said no to your older son and daughter in law. As you had already made arrangements.

They are probably crowing at their victory. Being pessimistic I can see them phoning Christmas morning and making an excuse not to come.

But that's my suspicious mind. I really hope that isn't the case but can see that happening.

Christmas 2019 I should have spent the day with my son and family at their house. 23rd December he phoned and said I will be to tired on Christmas Day to fetch you as I have a long shift on Christmas Eve. But they would come to me Boxing day and bring all the food to cook here.

I was hurt and my daughter furious . I had the day with my daughter and family as she wouldn't let me be on my own.

Boxing day 2019 was the last time I saw my daughter in law. She sat crocheting and only spoke if I asked a question. But I was happy playing with my grandson's and talking to my son.

Should have realised what was going to happen. Hence my suspicions mind.

Whiff that's truly awful, just awful. What a way to treat you.

Yes, I wish I had said no to them, but I didn't. It's done now will just have to wait and see how it pans out. It's certainly taken the shine off the proceedings.

What a predicament DerbyshireLass, I can see how much you want to see your grandchildren, but I would have offered them a boxing day meal, so sad that those who support us have to be moved to appease others.
What an awful choice to have to make, and lucky your son and family are so tolerant.?

Bridie .......I had previously offered them Boxing Day but obviously that wasn't good enough. The more I think about it the angrier I become. I'm being taken for a ride.

But as you say it's my youngest son and his girlfriend who have been the most affected. I wish I had said no and risked the fall out because I feel so guilty about the way they have had to switch their plans and appease their Lord and Ladyship. I should have just said no.

As you say luckily my youngest son and girlfriend have been very tolerant and understanding but I wouldn't have blamed them if they had been angry with me. They would have been perfectly justified. However, they have been nothing but loving and kind to me.

My late husband always used to say our boys were chalk and cheese. How right he was. I hate to say it but my youngest has turned out to be the far better man. He has stood by my side for years helping me and supporting me through my husbands illness and death, whilst the eldest did very little to help.

If I had been harbouring any doubts about his selfishness and just how ruthless he can be this latest development has finally dispelled them. My eyes are well and truly open now.

I have learned my lesson. I will never allow anything like this to happen again. I will never put my youngest son and his girlfriend in this position again. They have been beyond gracious but they simply don't deserve the way they have been treated.

My eldest son has more or less completely ignored his brother for almost a year but he thinks he can just rock up and enjoy his company again as if nothing has happened. Well he will find out on Christmas Day that his "Baby Bro" wont stand for it. I don't blame my youngest son and his girlfriend for not wanting to be in their presence, not after being given the cold shoulder all this time.

I am absolutely thoroughly fed up with everything at the moment. Just when I was starting to heal and feel better, I have been knocked back again. I feel like I'm suffering from some form of PTSD which is somehow locked in my body, and which comes out in the form of fibromyalgia. I can't take painkillers because they were making me feel ill so I'm having to work through it without pain relief.

This is the last time I am going to put my body through this.

Starting today I am upping the self care and trying to heal myself, some yoga, and a gentle walk today. It's not much but about all I can manage right now, hopefully building up a bit more each day.

I will be so glad when 2021 is over. I'm going to put all this behind me and start 2022 as I mean to go on. Taking better care of myself and concentrating on my health and well being.

DSL

You can still call them and tell them that you were hasty to say yes and caught off guard, you had a previous commitment and sadly you cannot see them that day.

You can make it right

Its so difficult DerbyshireLass to do the right thing by everyone, you were between a rock and a hard place, this time of year is so hard for us, take care of yourself and it will soon be a new year.?

Oh dear DSL they really know how to manipulate don't they.

I'm glad your son and his GF understand your decision but TBH I would have declined.

What's happened to the so called plans to go to Spain, when you previously told them that you'd made plans for Christmas day? I can't remember if you'd specified what your plans were but if you hadn't said you were spending the day with your other son and his GF, they must have guessed which is why they've invited themselves to you.

Is it too late to change your mind?

I agree with you Hithere.

DerbyshireLass sorry all this worry has made you ill again. It's not long ago you got over a bout of fibromyalgia. And you are suffering again.

Your son and girlfriend have shown how much they love and care for you.
And how much they disapprove of your son and daughter in law.

Time to put yourself and your younger son and girlfriend first.

Had to write as you post sounds so sad.??.

Well Spain was always a non starter. ??. That was just Madam having a flounce. Yes, they did know that my youngest son and GF were spending Christmas Day with me. It was no secret. Madam was threatened and thwarted by my show of independence and non compliance and reacted with anger, thus making spurious threats. Just bombast, bluster and empty boasting.

They miscalculated and overplayed their hand, They had just assumed I would be pathetically grateful to be "allowed" to spend time with them. Instead they got a huge shock when they realised I wasn't bothered either way, that I had cheerfully made other plans and put them on the back burner, offering them Boxing Day as a consolation prize.

Ouch, that must have hurt their egos. The expressions on their faces said it all, shock, incredulity and then in Madams case, Narcissistic rage, hence the threat to go to Spain. My son got the message loud and clear, realising he had gone too far. After a period of reflection they then decided they wanted to spend time with us after all.

There is more than a touch of the green eyed monster at work here. Madam in particular sees DS2 and his GF as a threat. Quite simply she is furious that they didn't get "top billing" and is jealous of my closeness with DS2 and GF. She sees DS2 and his GF as competitors and a threat to her position as Queen Bee. (As if, in her dreams).

She has always tried to disparage my youngest son from the get go because he has always seen right through her and known her for what she is. She can't stand that he is immune to her so she tries to poison my eldest son against his brother and break their bond.

She is an outrageous snob and full of her own grandiosity and self importance. She thinks they are somehow superior to DS2 and his GF (and myself too come to think of it?) because they have PhDs and what they perceive as their glittering careers. Apparently we are lesser mortals.

This was very apparent in a revealing conversation last weekend. I decided to bring her back down to Earth by gently reminding her that I had given both of my sons the sum of £50k each to buy and renovate their first properties. (And yet I'm the one who is cheap?). That remark still tickles me.

She has, of course, been a beneficiary of my largess too. If it weren't for my gift my son would not have been such a "good catch". They would have started out their lives together in rented accommodation, struggling to bring up two children and save enough to raise a deposit. Instead they are sitting on a valuable asset and are in a position to trade up.

They would do well to remember that they might have fancy qualifications and well paid jobs, but their current position of financial strength was built on my gift and not by their own efforts. She really has no reason to give herself such airs and graces. She simply got lucky marrying a man who had means and was clearly going places. Actually I don't think it was luck at all, I believe it was a calculated move on her part. She saw a good thing and moved in for the kill.

I'm not entirely convinced she has succeeded yet in making my son discard his brother. He will expect his baby brother to be here and that he can just pick up their relationship where it left off. Is he in for a shock because now this simply isn't going to happen. I know he will be stunned to find his brother has called him out and simply walked away.

Yes I should have said no, but I didn't. I was annoyed with myself but now, with hindsight I think maybe it's not such a bad thing after all. It will force a few issues to the fore. I am just going to let it play out and see what happens as a result.

I will not not give them the satisfaction of knowing they have rattled me but that's not my reason for allowing things to stand as they are. They need to know that my youngest son will not be messed around any more, he will not patronised by them, or derided and disparaged by them in future. He and his GF are using Christmas Day to make a stand and stick up for themselves. That's fine by me.

Maybe it will be my eldest sons wake up call. He's already had one strong message from me and now he will receive one from his brother. Let's hope it rams it home that he needs to change his ways before it's too late. If not he will lose both his mother and brother and he will be left alone and isolated. His call.

I realise both my younger son and I are playing a high stakes game and that we could still lose. I would lose both my son and grandchildren and my younger son would lose his brother.

It will be a case of either "Who Dares Wins" or they estrange us and my youngest son and I become pariahs. But either way, this is probably our last stand.

So much for the season of Goodwill and Peace on Earth. ?.

Thanks Whiff. That's so sweet of you. Yes I was sad this Morning, in a lot of pain and felt utterly drained and demoralised.

But I'm ok. I have been thinking it all through and have decided to just let the dice fall where it will. I will get through it, it's just another hurdle. Life throws us curved balls and it's up to us how we navigate life's twists and turns. Whatever happens I refuse to be a victim.

Full estrangement or not 2022 will see me making huge changes. I have dreamt up a mantra........"Radical Transformation". That will be my goal and road map.

I have discussed my future plans with my younger son and GF. They are all for the changes I plan to make. And yes, they will be part of my new life. I will be there for them as long as they want me.

My sons GF has always been a bit shy with me but it turns out she has been holding back because of Madam, afraid of upsetting the apple cart. Now that she no longer feels it necessary to hold her tongue for fear of upsetting me she has really come forward and revealed the true strength of her character. She is an absolute gem and has true grit. My son is in safe hands, ?. And I have found a true friend and ally. I couldn't wish for more if she were my own daughter.

I have had a quiet day, plenty of rest and keeping warm and cosy. Warmth helps ease the fibro, sod the heating bill. ?. Have been using my hand held massager on my limbs, neck and shoulders and they feel a bit less painful.

Just going to cook myself a nice healthy supper and then settle down with a nice film and do a bit more online shopping. Nearly finished.

It's going to be ok.

I shall get through Christmas and come out the other side. Just need to dredge up the Warrior Queen, stay strong and be resilient. Widowhood didn't defeat me, I'll be damned if some silly girl will browbeat me. She might be able to brainwash my son and grandchildren and use threats and emotional blackmail to control and manipulate them but it won't wash with me.

I'm just "giving her enough rope" and adopting a wait and see approach. Que sera and all that.

I am lucky in a weird way my son has cut all our side of the family out of their lives . So it's not just me that's been singled out. Which has made it easier for me.

Don't get me wrong I miss him and my 3 grandson's very much. But so glad I don't have stupid mind games to play.

My daughter and daughter in law didn't get on from when they first met but both tolerated eachother when I was with them all.

My daughter has never bad mouthed her sister in law in my hearing . But my daughter in law made snide remarks about my daughter when I was at their house before I moved up here . While I didn't like it I never said anything. Now I feel I have let my daughter down by not saying anything. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I never liked my brother's second wife but while they where married always treated her as one of the family. My husband couldn't stand her but he treated her well.

After they divorced I found out she was jealous of what me and my husband had. When her dad died I couldn't go to his funeral because I was looking after my mom. As they had divorced by then I sent the sympathy card to my nephew and his sister's. When her mom died I sent the card to my nephew and his sister's again. Mom had died so was going to the funeral to support my nephew and nieces also my brother was going. She had a hissy fit that the sympathy card should have been sent to her and her sister . So my nephew asked my brother to explain and ask me not to go. So I didn't. But I was furious how can a mother be so childish and spiteful to her own children that she wouldn't let their aunt be there to support them.

I really don't understand jealousy. Perhaps because I am not a jealous type of person. I put it down to my mom and dad and way they brought us up. But then again my husband wasn't a jealous sort either.

Thank you all for your lovely remarks about my tree.

Smiles I hope you are feeling better after your double jab and Mr S is ok as well.

Had my Covid booster on Tuesday morning and fell asleep after a cup of tea. Woke up for lunch and fell asleep again until after 4. Then went to bed at 6 .30. Apart for a sore arm no side effects.

Went to my exercise class Christmas party this morning at 11 there where 2 other classes at the party it was lovely meeting everyone. Had a lovely time. Food was plentiful and tasty. Had a quiz,played skittles and did an egg and spoon obstacle course. My class came third each time but we didn't care we enjoyed ourselves. Got home after 3 got a lift from one for my classes members. My daughter gave me a lift to the activity centre.

Will get round to reading the last 2 pages and get back to everyone.

?