SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

I wasn't going to watch Sound of Music again but put it on for background while doing Sudoku. But find I'm really enjoying some of it again. I've seen it so many times, once on stage in London with Petula Clarke as Maria. That was a long time ago!
Sadly, no husband now to sing along, Smileless.
But l did get my teenage Grandson to watch West Side Story with me. He is quite musical but doesn't know musicals. He said it was "Good " which pleased me.

Ear plugs are your friend!

3nanny6 - sending big hugs and wishing you a very happy new year (and if there are any leftovers from your delicious sounding meal, please send them my way! )

Hilltop Christmas and New Year wouldn't be the same without The Sound of Music and certainly wouldn't be the same without Mr. S., even with his singing.

I'm glad you had your GS to watch West Side Story with.

I'll have to get some Chewbacca, some really good ones.

I think there’s room for all here and support. It is different though when you never see your estranged child and probably never will. Never the less it’s difficult when you have a shaky relationship and want to avoid estrangement. So there’s room for all. I’ve already said I don’t identify as a warrior queen, I’m not. There is nothing I would have liked more not to be in this situation and I do recognise that my d felt she had valid reasons for her actions, it’s not something done lightly usually.. I wish her well, still love her but I and some time ago that she prefers life as it is now. For me it’s just acceptance of that, I find so hard and trying to understand how it came to this.

Allsorts,

Everything you wrote there hit home. The hardest part for me was accepting that my son facilitated our separation, and that it was truly what he wanted. We’ve not spoken in 2 years and it certainly isn’t for a lack of want or effort on my end. But accepting that this is what he wants our relationship to be was the hardest part for me. Thankfully, I’m in a better place now than I was a year ago. I call that period the Dark Time.

I've ordered some of these for you Smileless

I have just caught up with the thread and recent conversations. In a literal sense the title of this thread states that it is to provide support for "all who are living with estrangement!"

I suppose that could be interpreted literally as being only for those who are fully estranged but it is very clear from the variety of posters and stories here that estrangement is not just one state, it is a process that people are going through and that posters are at different stages of that process at different times.

I often think "pictorially" and I see this process like a long road that one travels along. Some posters have travelled many miles over many years, and are seeing a view that is no longer obscured all of the time by the ongoing pain of estrangement. Sometimes , especially on significant dates or some other memory trigger , the view gets obscured again for a while and the tears flow, as posters sometimes say on here.

Others are at the beginning of the road; they may not be fully estranged but are scared it will happen, they see the signs for different reasons that they may or may not articulate on the thread. Their road is often covered with egg shells or maybe rocks, that they inadvertently trip over, because frankly they can't do right for doing wrong and they didn't know the rock was there!!

Some are further along the road, stuck in a layby or moving between lay-bys as they find themselves ignored for months or drip fed tiny morsels, not knowing what to do, so they walk a bit further when a small glimmer of hope is given to them only to get shoved into another layby and ignored/drip fed again

Then there are those who find themselves going back and forth along the road, estranged then reconciled then estranged again. Maybe they have drawn a red line in their road that they refuse to cross so they are dealing with the fall out from that, holding their breath to see if their red line means that they have now joined the "full estrangement club!"

I am sure there are many more parts of this road and ALL of them are painful.

I do not talk about my own personal situation but some regular posters are aware of it and have helped me privately. I certainly find it helpful to read about how you all deal with your own particular stage on your road, about your experiences and what you have done; it helps me to think about how to deal with my own road!

I hope that I can offer support too and am so pleased that you have found my comments useful in the past 3nanny6

So here we are in 2022 wondering where it will lead us!

There is "room for all and support* as you say Allsorts whether they see themselves as Warrior Queens or not.

I think it was Socksandsocks who said that for her, being a Warrior Queen stiffened her spine. For some it is empowering to think of themselves this way. Provides the strength and the courage to speak out and to take back some control.

For some it is simply light relief as the imagined images of others are conjured up in the imagination. Mr. S. loved that image you had of him, I think it was you Whiff on a white steed, especially as he's never been on a horse in his life!!

Some don't want to be or regarded as Warrior Queens and of course that's OK too.

For me, it's a combination of the two, the empowerment and the light relief. We know that one size doesn't fit all. We know that despite the many similarities, there can be vast differences too, and a lot of those are due to our different personalities, and as you have so eloquently posted about Madgran, our different circumstances.

So as we look ahead to 2022 with fear and trepidation, or with the hope that this year things may change, or simply with the hope that the journey we are on will continue with as little additional stress and heartbreak as possible, let's do it together.

Sorry Chewbacca just seen the ear muffs, very kind of you I just hope I don't look like that when I'm wearing them.

I watched a Pixar film on iPlayer today called Coco. There was a song in it which made me cry called remember me..I suppose because my grandson's won't remember me now and wondered if my son ever thought of me and hopefully remembered his dad. It will be 18 years next month since he died.

Madgran very insightful post which included all they come here for support,advice, understanding and friendship. ?

Oh Whiff xx

DiamondLily
You and your husband may like to consider Al-Anon, if you haven't already. This is a program specifically for people who are affected by someone else's drinking.

Smiles
I recall once when I was a child, "The Sound of Music" was on at midnight on Christmas Eve. While we couldn't stay awake to watch it, we did tape it.

For everyone, if you want your mind blown: very carefully watch "The Wizard of Oz". Dorothy's hair changes length throughout the film.

Oh no really agnurse, that's something else I've missed and I've watched that film more times then I care to remember.

Smiles

In all fairness, I only noticed it myself when it was pointed out to me in a book I read. (I had also seen that movie dozens of times as we had taped it when I was a child; ironically, I didn't see the ending for years as the tape ran out just prior!)

Wonderful post Madgran.

Haven't seen the Wizard of Oz in years. Must look out for Judys hair next time I watch it.

Last evening I spent a delightful few hours in the company of Joan Collins and then Michael Cain. BBC2. A real trip down Memory Lane.

I was born in 1951 and the 60s was "my" decade. Such fun and the Michael Caine programme in particular brought back all the fond memories.

Anyway that's it now. Yesterday I allowed myself one final day of being a sloth, today it really is Hello 2022 and time to get busy and start building that new life I have promised myself.

As Michael said at the end of the programme ....

"never look back, always look forwards and never dream small".

Wise words, and, given my circumstances, they could have been written just for me. ?

So, no more looking back for me as I prepare to start afresh. And yes with big dreams too. New house, new healthy body, new interests and, when covid permits, some new travel adventures.

I'm going to stop worrying. If estrangement happens, it happens. I am 70 now, yes I'm healthy (I think) and fully mobile but realistically how many good years do I have left. Not going to waste any more of my precious time worrying about what may or may not happen.

So here's the plan.....

Today I'm going to start by packing away Christmas and have a good old tidy up. Next week I will tackle each room, one room each day, and give them a thorough deep clean. Then reupholster my dining chairs and then get the paint rollers out, turn the scruffy spare room/storage room/dumping ground into a proper guest bedroom. Get the house looking beautiful and hopefully on the market sometime in April.

oooh I do love a plan.?.

Hoping for a much better year.....for all of us.

Now that's what I call a plan DSL any ideas where you might move too and what sort of property you're thinking of?

We down sized in so much as this house was cheaper than the one we sold but up sized in space. This is the biggest and loveliest we've ever had.

On 3 floors with 4 bedrooms, a living room and office space in the basement with a huge storage room. 2 bedrooms and a ridiculously large bathroom on the ground floor. A large kitchen/diner, utility room and living room on the first floor and 2 bedrooms and a shower room on the second floor.

No garden but doors from the kitchen/diner onto a roof terrace where we can see the sea in part and a spectacular view of the sea from the rear second floor bedroom.

Good job I enjoy housework!!!

I love being so close to the sea, we've been here 5 years now and I still wake up with a smile when I hear the sea gulls. It was such a relief to come here and put some distance between us and our ES and his family. Best thing we could have done.

Madgran beautiful post thank you.

I think I’ve heard than song whiff music has that effect on me too. Just when you think you’re doing ok then you’re not..

I love a plan DSL I’ll be reading with interest your progress. Good luck with it all. And I hope you’ll be as happy in your new home as smileless is in theirs. Totally green with envy I’d love the sea as my neighbour.

I have a busy day ahead of me, boring admin and sorting out the filing system that’s been neglected so I wish you all a good day and stay safe.

Tbh I have no idea.....all I know is I will need to factor my age into account, try and find something near to amentities for when I no longer wish to drive. Other than that, no real thoughts. I would like a bit of outdoor space, a roof terrace sounds fab. I do love gardening but maybe a smaller one next time round.

I currently live on the south side of the city, about 20 mins away from one son and 30 mins from the other. I have to cross the city to get to each of them which can be a pain especially at peak times, when you can double travelling times.

Alas we are a long way from the sea but Derbyshire is a beautiful county. Maybe a move slightly further north, somewhere nearer the Peak District and on the "right" side of the city. There's plenty of nice little market towns and pretty villages to chose from.

I am prepared to rent until I find exactly what I'm looking for. It will be an adventure.

Hi All, glad my musings were appreciated.

We spent yesterday cycling along by the coast, eating egg baps to keep our energy up and generally relaxing. Did us the world of good after rather a "mixed bag" over Christmas! We don't live by the sea but it's easy to get to and we can put our folding bikes in the car, they were such a good investment for us.

Your plan sounds great DSL focused on yourself which is sometimes the best thing to focus on isn't it! Derbyshire is somewhere I have visited a few times, its lovely! Good idea to consider renting I think, it was ideal for a friend of mine when she wanted to move

granniesunite I'm on admin today too!! ??

smileless I loathe cleaning! We used to have a cleaner in when we both worked (it was my idea of spoiling myself!) but when we retired DH said we might as well do it ourselves! My reply was "You do it if you like, but I am not helping, it's purgatory!" Since then he happily cleans once a month, with "touch ups" in between and gets great satisfaction then from it too! ? Meanwhile he never goes near an iron as he loathes that (I love ironing whilst listening to music!) ...so it all balances out in the end!

Have a nice day everyone!

You are good Granniesunite I have rather a large of admin work to get through this week. Getting the accounts up to date for our Church because I'm treasurer, doing the year end return for Mothers Union, because I'm treasurer for that too (they must see me coming) and getting the accounts for our dormant company up to date for our accountant.

I'm OK once I get going, it's just getting going that's the problem. It's true isn't it, the more time you have the less gets done, I was a lot more efficient when I had less time to spare.

Your musings are always greatly appreciated here Madgran so keep them coming. Mr. S. hoovers once a week and ... well that's it really.

I hope you had a lovely evening 3nanny.

Here I am again and thank-you to all for asking about my evening . I had a lovely evening and I need that time for family around as it cheers me up. to be in the company of the T.V set can get tedious. It is nice to relax with the lamp on and candles with the dogs but everyone needs some conversation.
We had so much food, I had some of sons partners lamb curry and had roast potatoes with it. they had some roast but also eat some lamb curry, For me it is wonderful to have some appetite back and wanting food again. Having the Covid 19 from 6th December and isolating for 10 days was horrible and I had no appetite at all mainly living on bottled water night and day anyway feeling normal again and eating food, Sons partner also baked lemon cake and coconut cake and brought slices of each an although a bit ashamed of myself eat two slices of each, she said it is good I have an appetite again as they were getting worried about me.
I think this thread is somewhere we can all talk of our estrangement, and the post from Madgran was insightful and true we all have been at different places along the journey some have got further along than others. For me the fact my Daughter still calls me even though the relationship is less than perfect is something but for many months any relationship with the 3 GC is non existent mainly due to circumstances on daughters side and my other daughter is still living with her also and she went no contact to me for almost six months because of her sister. I almost fainted when eldest daughter came on the phone to me asking if I felt better so like I say where there is hope there is life. It is a genuine fact though when there is disconnection from the GC even though you may get to see them at some point the relationship has been altered and it has been chipped away at and for me I don't know if I can ever get back to how things were with them. As Madgran said in her post some of us get to be driven to the lay-by and then we get dumped for whatever reason and then they decide to pick us up again and it starts all over again. I will not have that happen with me and Daughter knows this and we have had the conversation that she has to do certain things which are necessary and get back to the person she once was (Social Services are being strict with her also) so it is up to her now she holds her own fate in her hands I sincerely hope she can succeed.
SilentObserver
Sorry to hear that you have had no contact with your son for two years, It is hurtful and the loss is difficult to replace with something to take away the pain,
You do sound like you have things in perspective and have found your own way to cope with it all and like you say to have a positive outlook and want to move forward is the best way to deal with things.
Lets hope 2022 can bring positive news for all. It is wonderful for me to have the new grandson who is my sons child he is a little darling. The three that are lost to me cannot be replaced but from things that happen I think I have just buried my pain and hurt that it is locked away and the scar tissue heals over. I do not even cry over them these days not because I no longer love them but because I have just locked those feelings away.

Anyway too much information and too long a post and everyone will be bored to tears.
So take care all you wonderful busy ladies on here I am going to start my New Years plan from tomorrow for now off out with the dog for a stroll.

nanny6 4 bits of cake eh , don't mind if I do! Just enjoy, it's good you feel you want to eat it after such a grotty Covid time! Sounds like your family time was a treat!

It's not too much information atall...and I am sure that noone is bored! You have certainly been pushed into laybys haven't you, but you are also drawing red lines to look after yourself, very wise! Red lines can go either way but they are necessary I think.

As you say where there is life there is hope!

So pleased your evening went well 3nanny and that you enjoyed 2 slices of cake.

It must be a comfort to know that social services are pro active with your D's case and alleviate some of the concerns I know you had for your GC.

I'm sorry that you feel there's a degree of disconnect with your GC. Your relationship with them may not be what it once was but can still be a wonderful one. I'm sure they'll have memories of how things were including you being there on their doorstep, always willing to help even if there were times when that help was rejected.

Your son's partner sounds lovely, you must be thrilled she is in his life and over the moon with your little GS.

Hope you enjoyed your stroll.

Hi Smileless yes my stroll blew away the cobwebs although did not go far as it began raining heavily and still with heavy Covid 19 legs decided to make my way home. Glad I at least accomplished something and hope to build up walking each day.

Knowing Social Services now are fully aware and know much about daughter makes me feel some good can come of everything as long as she puts in all her own efforts.
I always start to shop for the daughters 3 children before the big rush at Christmas so good for me I had their presents bought just before going down with the rotten Covid. Once over the Covid and feeling better I wrapped everything up and because my daughter knew I had presents for them she was keen to receive them. I waited until Christmas Eve and told Daughter I had everything ready but I was still weak from the Covid which was not a lie anyway, so I called a taxi and they said they could take the bags to my Daughters house at normal rate.
I know I have been and had to be kept on the doorstep before but this year I just could not do it, I could not bear to see them just beyond the door or would all of them come out anyway. My needs were that I needed to hug them and give them a kiss like times of old and somehow this year that was too unbearable for me and for my own mental health I just was not able to put myself through it. So the agony was saved on both sides.

It is wonderful that my son found this lovely person to share his life he has told her a little bit about his absent sister and she has said to me it must be really hard to deal with.
I just count my blessings for the beautiful Grand-son and he too had his presents, he got a lovely all in one winter coat with hood which they were over the moon with. I also bought him two suits one with saying Santa's Little Helper and another one with Santa's Reindeer. Sons partner keeps putting the Santa suits on GC and my son tells her put some other clothes on him, anyway he looks lovely in anything. I got him a little book with talking sounds and he loves it.

I have barely looked at T.V. today has there been any more musicals for Mr. S. ?
Enjoy your evening .