Sign for grandchildren

It’s relevant though to acknowledge that unresolved feelings of grief, anger, rage and hurt aren’t a good foundation for policy making

Very true. As you say though personal experiences can feed into policy makers thinking and be very useful.

An example would be:

*Sarah's Law

- that happened because of the campaigning by Sarah Payne regarding controlled access to the sex offenders register after the murder of her young daughter by a known sex offender. Her experiences influenced policy makers, after much discussion policy was changed. There were certainly many petitions as part of her campaign.

In the end a petition can be started, signed by those who wish to and considered relevant or not by policy makers who have to be trusted to consider all aspects of the subject, all scenarios, possible connotations and decide on best fit policy.

In the case of the one posted in the OP I would hope that woukd be the case by policy makers. And in the case of the discussions on this thread I would hope that they may prove helpful to those finding themselves with painfully difficult decisions to make.

It's a bit like reading victim impact statements in court at sentencing.

It's important that their voices are heard and of course that influences decisions

Very true Violet re Victim Impact statements

I think if you agree with the petition you sign, if not you don’t.

Hi Smileless
Not heard from you for a couple of days, hope you are ok. I know from my own experience how difficult Christmas can be,
especially when small grandchildren are involved. Do come back on and chat with us.

BUMPING this thread for those who want but as yet havent, signed the petition.

All sorts - ther appears to be a reason Smiles isn’t able to post

Reading. up on grand children alienation you will see parents would never go along with anything the court decides, they would make it all too difficult I fear, which in turn would upset the grandchildren they would be like pawns in a game. I missed mine so much, but I had to let her go. I am so glad I had a normal relationship with my other gc, and my own children had a very close relationship with their grandparents, whom they adored, my son often talks about them. I was happy the more people to love them the better I say.

Allsorts, yes, these kinds of orders are difficult to enforce, if they even try. Can they even be? I don't know.

I'd sooner move abroad than be forced into a relationship that is going to make my life more difficult.

What if it is reversed? My son would have loved to know his paternal grandmother when he was young, even now really. However she had no interest and still has no interest (the only thing I can think of is I divorced her son and put him in jail for DV). Could I or my son have filed a petition to force his grandmother to spend time with him?

TinFoilTiara

What if it is reversed? My son would have loved to know his paternal grandmother when he was young, even now really. However she had no interest and still has no interest (the only thing I can think of is I divorced her son and put him in jail for DV). Could I or my son have filed a petition to force his grandmother to spend time with him?

That’s a really interesting spin on the question

I don't think a reluctant grandparent being forced to spend time with a GC could ever be a positive thing, unless the GP decides they quite like the child after all. The child will sense whatever the GP is feeling.

Could I, as a child, have forced my parents to make the trip to visit my GPs regularly, so I could get to know them? No, I had no right to decide if I wanted a regular GP relationship. Sometimes we don't get what we want in life. Not that I missed it as a child. You can't miss what you don't know.

Court’s are not the place to resolve family disputes. Those awful parental conflicts about which parent ‘wins’ on residence and conflict are damaging. Why add more adults to the war?

Although, I do support mothers who try to protect their children from the ex who abused the mum and often the chikdren

TinFoilTiara

That did make me think.

My children would love to see their grandfather more but he lives abroad and has a happy life there.

Imagine if they could enforce their rights and he had to either travel back and forth or leave that life behind.

He is wonderful with them and I love seeing them together.

I remember how it felt when he moved as a teen and only seeing him twice a year but I never for a moment thought about preventing him that choice.

People have a right to choose their own paths in life and do what makes them feel comfortable, safe or happy. We should not be taking that away.

Going back to the wording of the petition this thread is about, I do think that bringing into the discussion grandparents being forced to see their grandchildren and grandchildren being forced into seeing their grandparents, is irrelevant.

The petition is based on the safe and established relationship between grandchildren and their grandparents being maintained.

If this relationship already exists, why would either a grandparent or grandchild have to be forced to maintain the relationship they'd previously enjoyed?

I also find the suggestion that a grandparent living abroad being forced to travel back to the country where their grandchildren live, because his/her grandchildren are enforcing their rights rather absurd to be honest.

We obviously think very differently aged and that's not a bad thing from my perspective

I also find the suggestion that a grandparent living abroad being forced to travel back to the country where their grandchildren live, because his/her grandchildren are enforcing their rights rather absurd to be honest I agree. It's taking the argument to such an extreme that's it's pointless considering it.

No it illustrates the point that this petition is short sighted and overly romantisised because it is picking and choosing which children it believes have rights and even then, it does not hear the voices of those children.

Which is why it is not really about children's rights at all.

Every Child Matters, which is why the Children's Act reads exactly as it does.

The idea that my children could enforce these "rights" is obsurd, which is exactly why I responded the way I did to the person who first mentioned the idea.

Yet I have been told it is the childrens rights to have a close and loving relationship with wider family that are being asked for.

It only reinforces my point once again that this is about the grandparents and not the children.

This petition ignores any kind of relationship except those it deems worthy without even having the ability to measure that worthyness as if the word of a grandparent is to be upheld and believed over any possible reason for estrangement.

People are signing it blind to the possibility that there are those among them signing for reasons that don't have children's best interests at heart at all.

So voices like mine won't be shut down or won't be told that our thoughts don't matter and aren't worthy in this debate. The same way I would not tell any loving grandparent their thoughts don't matter and aren't worthy.

I would only tell them that this cannot ever be and many of us will fight against it and there will always be more voices against than for as this thread clearly demonstrates given its targeted audience are grandparents.

The reasons for doing so are not to hurt or harm any grandparent much is it might be easier to think that way than listen to the truth, it is only to make sure all children are protected from possible harm.

I don't agree with you. I think you're massively exaggerating a remote scenario to promote your opinion which I don't agree with in the first place.

I don't mind disagreeing with you Chewbacca I am not sure I've seen you explain your reasoning but even so your perspective is yours to freely give, as is mine.

Who is trying to shut you down, to say your voice isn’t worthy in this debate VS?
You mention The Children Act and Every Child Matters and in the same breath dismiss the suggestion that children

Apologies my phone is misbehaving

…. Dismiss the suggestion that children have the right to maintain existing, loving relationships.
I’ve outlined the difficulties in maintaining those relationships if the parents don’t want their children to continue seeing grandparents post estrangement. Nigh on impossible unless the children were say 11 or older and could walk to grandparents. Even then difficult because responsible loving grandparents would have to make sure the parents knew where the children were.
It’s a horrible situation with no ‘einners’

Winners

Well there is an example of what I mean Iam64, I have not dismissed the rights of children to maintain loving relationships, the nearest I have come to talking about that was just to say that the court route would also do more harm than good in a lot of those cases too.

Thankfully I'm not on trial here lol

Off to walk off yesterday's gluttony and see the Christmas lights, happy boxing day

Who is trying to shut you down, to say your voice isn’t worthy in this debate

That's precisely why I don't explain my reasoning Iam64, you've nailed it! Any attempt to hold a discussion is frequently met with accusations such as this; hence my decision not to bite.