Sign for grandchildren

You raise a valid point Iam. Even a child at the age of 11 or older would not I'm sure be prepared to walk to a grandparents house, if they were left in no doubt that this is not what their parents wanted. That of course is down to the parents.

I do think it's unhelpful to suggest that anyone agreeing, therefore signing this petition is blind to the possibility that some may not be doing so with the best interests of children in mind. Opinions may differ but I that doesn't mean some are more concerned about the children in these cases, than others.

I appreciate parents enabling their children to continue seeing grandparents they themselves don't want to see would be difficult however, where there is an established and valuable relationship there, I fail to understand why any parent would interfere with this if they were genuinely putting their children's interests first.

The possibility of of grandparents actually going to court would be avoided if parents actually were putting the interests of their children above their own.

Thankfully, regardless of whether or not this petition is successful, as the law stands it is possible for grandparents to go to court to maintain contact with their grandchildren.

Thankfully, regardless of whether or not this petition is successful, as the law stands it is possible for grandparents to go to court to maintain contact with their grandchildren

This is part of the reason I find this petition so silly.

It’s poorly worded, based on a case where the grandparent is waiting on hearing if they will be going to court for stalking AND the right to ask to go to court for visitation is already available to grandparents.

Safe loving grandparents can be very valuable to a child.

However, safe loving parents should get to choose who is in their families lives.

Differing opinions aren't relevant to the fact that some children would not benefit from a relationship, it's just a fact. You can certainly have an opinion on a relationship you have not experienced but that does not mean you are right.

Again some parents are putting their children first by ending those relationships.

Yes I agree, as things stand works best to ensure that those who can prove a significant positive relationship are able to go to court rather than blanket leave which is not in everyone's best interest

VioletSky

Well there is an example of what I mean Iam64, I have not dismissed the rights of children to maintain loving relationships, the nearest I have come to talking about that was just to say that the court route would also do more harm than good in a lot of those cases too.

Thankfully I'm not on trial here lol

Off to walk off yesterday's gluttony and see the Christmas lights, happy boxing day

Who is putting you on trial? I’ve posted a number of times my view that Court isn’t the place to settle family disputes. Even warring parents can usually be helped to settle disagreements. Those that end in court usually have either awful abuse or very difficult people involved.
You suggested in an earlier post that parents wouldn’t estrange loving parents, unless those adult child parents were abusing their children in other ways. Where is the evidence you base that on?

Iam64 you haven't addressed what I said regarding me saying something I haven't and I don't think we can continue in honest discussion unless you do

I don’t understand your post
Are you denying your earlier suggestion parents who estrange
Non abusive grandparents will be abusing their children in other ways

No, but perhaps better to drop it.

On the comment you are speaking of I have already explained to the best of my ability, what I meant and my thinking.

Other than that I don't think it is sensible to revisit as several comments had to be removed and its not helpful to the topic when that happens

I’ve just looked back and seen one of my posts was deleted. I’ve no idea why and I think it’s the only time I’ve had a post deleted.

Why would safe loving parents choose not to allow their children to continue their safe loving relationship with their safe loving grandparents Summerlove?

Aged

Because what a party calls "safe loving relationship" may not be seen like such from the other side

Yes, that's true Hithere from the point of view of the parents or the grandparents.

Agedp1953

Why would safe loving parents choose not to allow their children to continue their safe loving relationship with their safe loving grandparents Summerlove?

I have no idea. I know it had happened though.

I still feel it’s the parents choice

I agree VioletSky. It is picking and choosing which children have 'rights'. Obviously my parents had the right to choose that I wouldn't know my grandparents because there wasn't an estrangement. Those with an estrangement don't get the same right, or so some would want it. Either the child has the right to know GPs or they don't. So which is it? It's not a crazy argument. It's an argument that follows logically from the assertion that it's about the children and their right to know their GPs. If it only applies in some circumstances, then it's not about the children at all. It's about the GPs asserting what they want and dressing it up as 'only thinking about the children'.

As children with distance don't have the same right to know GPs, there's an easy solution.

You put it better CafeAuLait

Absolutely cafe

I do think it's different CafeAuLait when a family moved away and a grandchild never knew their GP's, as you say in your case, there was no estrangement.

This is about the right for children to continue the already existing relationship they have with their GP's which they lose because their parents estrange the child's GP's.

I'm new to gransnet and was heartened to see this thread giving those who wish to sign the linked in petition to make access to the courts for grandparents easier.

I, family and friends have all signed, our lives having been blighted by the cruelty and intransigence of our estranged adult child.

Of course parents need to protect their children from abusive grandparents and other abusive family members but my experience of other on line forums where this is discussed, is that this then disrupts the conversation all together with grandparents who are estranged feeling the need to defend themselves from the suggestion or assumption, that they must have been bad/abusive to have been estranged to begin with.

Any and all changes that have been asked for are to make it easier for grandparents to go to court. This would not mean it would be easier for them to be given contact.

It's worth keeping in focus that this is about the continuation of an already established relationship between children and their grandparents. The onus of proof is on the grandparents to show that this was the case before the relationship was denied.

I seriously doubt that there many grandparents who abused their own child(ren), the parent of their grandchild(ren) who would have had the opportunity to build a safe and loving relationship with their grandchildren.

Surely any contact would have been limited and supervised.

seasidelass I wish I could agree with you but we are talking about people who grew up in abusive households and were conditioned to accept abuse. I did not understand the extent of what had happened to me until my children came to my defense. I will forever regret exposing my children to that small section of my family but I needed professional help to understand and undo the damage.

Please remember all victims conditioned by abusers in every different kind of abuse and understand it is not that simple. From the mother taking beatings thinking she is protecting her hold to the sexual abuse victim who is too frightened to tell even to protect others, all underpinned by the emotional abuse of people who very often get away with it.

Preotceting her bildren that she read

Children

Sorry I have medicated a migraine and the pain is gone but not the auras

Enough Internet for today

VS
Feel better

I still say that cases where potentially abusive grandparents, because they abused the grandchild's parent, have been able to establish a relationship with their grandchildren will be few Violetsky.

I am not disputing the relevance and importance of such cases, but as I have already said, the constant reference to abuse when ever this type of discussion takes place, tends to disrupt the conversation and can take the focus away from safe and loving grandparents.

Those being the ones from what I've seen who are posting here.

Seasidelass this thread is under "Estrangement", I am afraid you are going to get both sides of the issue from those who are estranged and how it may impact them or others like them.

Thank you Hithere it was really odd, I suddenly went hot, sick and dizzy, laid down on the sofa, slept for an hour and feel fine now!

Hello seaside lass, welcome to gransnet. Estrangement is of course painful for
all involved.

The suggestion that grandparents estranged by their adult children
must have abused their own children is something that’s often repeated on the estrangement threads.
I haven’t signed the petition for reasons I gave earlier. The law as it stands gives children the right to maintain loving existing relationships. Ultimately it couldn’t happen in the face of hostility