Sign for grandchildren

Iam64

When and where has that been said?

Reading about both sides of estrangement isn't a problem for me VioletSky and I'm not sure why you may think it would be.

Thank you for the welcome Iam. Abuse is a factor but not the only one for parents becoming estranged. I agree with you that children caught up in any conflict is unhealthy and agree with what's already been said here, that it's the responsibility of all the adults concerned, to put the interests of the children first.

Seasidelass that's not what I was saying but I'm glad it's not a problem for you

I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear VioletSky. I’ll try to clarify the comment I made in response to Seasidelass.
I’ve often read on estrangement threads, posters refer to abuse they suffered as children, at the hands of their parents.

Iam64 ah, OK, thank you for clarifying

Iam, how very true.

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Hi Robina I agree that the children caught up in this issue are paramount as is for me, keeping in focus that this is about "their right to safe immediate family relationships".

I find that that focus is sometimes lost and that the children missing the grand parents, and other immediate family members they know and love are somehow forgotten, and the effect that the sudden unexplained loss of those relationships can have on them.

No, this is most definitely not a new debate and needs to be given the platform it deserves.

Hi Jasvinder, did you mean that many now adult children have shared how they feel in this space? We were once young children too with a right to safe immediate family relationships and were sadly denied that. We are also still our parents children and our needs often get overlooked in a grandparents quest to have a relationship with a grandchild.

Could you please tell me your thoughts on how it would be ensured that people who are abusive, neglectful, addicted, bigoted or otherwise unsafe to be around children would be prevented should your petition come to pass?

Could you also please tell me your thoughts on how already struggling court systems and organisations like cafacass would be able to cope with the added workload without risk that mistakes would be made.

I would also like to ask your thoughts on how the court process is prevented from being mentally and financially stressful for everyone evolved and how that mental and financial stress can be prevented from harming the children who have no choice but to be dragged into it all.

Thank you

Having worked in Children’s Services, I cannot think of a single instance where a child’s life would be improved by being caught emotionally between two legally “warring” factions.

It’s bad enough when the parents are doing this, let alone with other relatives joining in.

If both sides were reasonable, then it could work, but if both sides were reasonable, it wouldn’t be going to court in the first place.

The Family Courts are already overwhelmed, so where is the funding and resources for this coming from?

For long established grandparents, there is already the mechanism to go to court, and request contact.

I won’t be signing the petition for that reason, although I agree, with others, (excluding any abuse or potential harm reasons), that parents withholding contact just because of their arguments with their own parents, is unreasonable and unfair.

I don't agree that the needs of parents who need protect their children from abusive/potentially abusive grandparents are being overlooked.

To balance that argument, the rights of children to continue the safe and established relationship they have with their non abusive grandparents are at the risk of being overlooked.

This petition is to make it easier for grandparents to go to court to put forward a case for continued contact. It would not make it easier, or possible for unsafe grandparents to be able to do so.

There is no sure fired method of preventing mistakes when it comes to contact for grandparents or custody for parents, as recent tragic cases have shown.

Should the rights of children enshrined in law, be put to one side because courts have a heavy workload?

When it comes to custody and contact cases, the mental and financial stress is not something that the courts can alleviate, only the adults themselves can do this by finding a workable solution that is in the best interests of the children.

I agree Smileless that the real focus is often lost and the children being denied the grandparents they love are often overlooked.

Is there any data Jasvinder, that demonstrates how may contact orders are denied to grandparents due to a history of abuse? It would be interesting to know and may ease the fears of some parents due to their own childhood experiences.

I suspect if this data were available it would show a tiny percentage, thus demonstrating the unlikelihood of a grandparent with a history of abuse taking their case to court, let alone being successful.

Why on earth has that post been deleted GNHQ, it was extremely relevant to this discussion and I can't understand why anyone would report it?

I don't think it's productive to make guesses about unknown data.

It could be any number of grandparents cut off for good reason or not good reason. If you ask adult children they often claim abuse and if you ask grandparents they often claim there was none. I still don't understand how courts would be equipped to sort that out.

As things stand grandparents who can prove a positive loving relationship can ask for leave to go to court. I don't see any problem with that.

I personally think that if both parents agree that a grandparent should not have access then they should never have leave to go to court

Why on earth has that post been deleted GNHQ, it was extremely relevant to this discussion and I can't understand why anyone would report it?

No idea Smileless It seems that if there's something you don't like; get it deleted!

I cannot see the point in reporting and deleting the post, as now the rest of the thread won’t make sense.?

But, perhaps it was because she gave links to her own website?

Many forums won’t allow that.

Still, people will either sign this petition or won’t, so it won’t make any difference to the end result. I’m not even sure if these online petitions ever change anything anyway.

Maybe it was deleted because it breached the rules about media/journalists
It doesn’t stop this discussion about whether more can be done to help children maintain existing positive loving relationships
My view as already expressed is similar to diamond lily

Iam64

Maybe it was deleted because it breached the rules about media/journalists
It doesn’t stop this discussion about whether more can be done to help children maintain existing positive loving relationships
My view as already expressed is similar to diamond lily

Yes, I think it’s probably that. I belong to a large forum, nothing to do with parents.grandparents, but if anyone posts a link to their own website, it’s immediately removed.

They are supposed to go through HQ first, giving their background and credentials, on that site.

Thanks everyone for the explanation.

That had crossed my mind Chewbacca as there seem to have been a lot of deletions recently.

As the parent of my children I am confident I can make decisions regarding their care. If I am incapable then I am unfit and so can not be in charge of the care of my children.

If my MIL ever did obtain a court order for access she would still never see my children.

If poster wish for their comments to remain they simply need to follow GN guidelines. I am sure the HQ are happy to assist any in understanding.

Claiming is one thing, proving is another entirely Violetsky.

It's just as unlikely that an adult who has estranged their parent(s) would admit to doing so even though they'd done nothing wrong, as it is for a grandparent going to court for contact to admit to having abused their grandchild's parent.

I agree about not making guesses about unknown data, which is why I asked if there was any. Guess work about the likelihood of an abusive grandparent successfully getting a contact order is in my view, equally if not more unproductive.

Is that likely Bibbity? Did your mother in law up until recently have an established relationship with your children? If not that would never happen.

seasidelass it's important because grandparents rights do exist elsewhere and abusive grandparents have indeed won rights so it is not without precident

Seasidelass

Is that likely Bibbity? Did your mother in law up until recently have an established relationship with your children? If not that would never happen.

It would never happen. She didn't have much of a relationship with the two she did meet and we ended it when DS was 3 and DD was 1. DD2 is now 2 and we have not seen or spoken to her in 4ish years I believe.

But regardless. If a parents is deemed fit in every other aspect of parenting and decision making then their say should be final. The nets judge of someone's parenting and character are those who have had to endure it the most.

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Oh, I wouldn't say 20 odd thousand signatures is going nowhere.