Repairing estrangement

I feel that estrangement, just to cut off, is cruel. I do not know how you can do it if there’s any love there. Even in a friendship you explain why you are cutting ties. Then there’s a reason and an end. You don’t hang on thinking what have I done, how can I put it right, when in truth you can’t. The action in the first place really says it all. It just did not seem to me your own child wouldn’t love you, I do now of course, if I love it goes deep, I put up with a lot whilst it just annoyed her I didn’t go quietly. Just knowing that brings a sort of closure for me at least.

Our DD went from discussing our planned house move, taking my DH around houses we were interested in etc to cutting us dead (although she’s texting DH now). We’d had a wonderful week’s holiday a few weeks previously, she’d been fully aware of our plans for the previous 18 months or more.

Apparently I/we are responsible for her physical and mental ill health, she doesn’t want us living anywhere near her, we’re going to poach her friends (I have absolutely no idea who her friends are, I’ve never met any of them), it’s her community not yours, etc.
To say I was flabbergasted is putting it mildly!
No birthday card, Christmas card, let alone presents. Nothing.
She’s sent the odd very brief text to me that I have carefully responded to after discussing with DH.
Needless to say we’re not moving now (it was to the same city but a good distance away from her), I have lost the impetus and can’t be bothered to try and rebuild our dreams. We’d found the perfect bungalow, put in an offer then bang. Dreams demolished.
I have little interest in much now.

Diamondlily

Some people are saying that they have or want to just move on from the relationship

I'm just saying that isn't me and what I would need to move forward.

Which is why I mentioned joint therapy, I would have been happy to do that.

I think it's OK to be both, moving on and finding happiness in life but still open to the situation changing in some way.

I don't know that anyone has to know what specific reasons were to offer apology and accountability. Maybe it is enough to just say "I understand that our relationship has made you unhappy enough to leave it and I am so sorry for that, I am willing to do what is necessary to have a good relationship with you".

Obviously that's not a one size fits all answer and I'm just thinking aloud here.

As Violetsky says "I am always willing to forgive someone who is able to be accountable and apologise. I can't trust people who aren't accountable for their actions and don't apologise so I could never be happy in a relationship with someone like that. I don't know how anyone could."

Regarding repairing estrangement, my son hasn't apologised and nor have I. We haven't spoken about it, just being in the moment and not looking backwards. To be honest, I think some things are just pain and can't always be verbalised. Though I do in principle agree with the above.

It might help that he never told me not to be in contact, he just went quiet? I have found out since that things were going wrong in his life at the time and it may not have been much to do with me, but that he was overwhelmed and slightly embarassed.

No one can have too much love.

Onward your son is unwell in some way, it's so good you are communicating and all the time you are in his life you are there for when and if that conversation does happen.

When I was very ill and mentally unwell because of it, I actually answered my mother because I wasn't in control of myself, my reactions or my feelings but the outcome was more estrangement because she is abusive.

Yet still, she is unwell in some way. Even all the awful things she said and did are forgivable. She just cannot ever face that shame or get herself help and its easier to lie and justify it to herself than it is to allow everyone else around her to know that she took her problems out on me and used me as an emotional punchbag.

No one should be an emotional punchbag so that others can feel better. That includes you, only you know when a relationship is too painful to continue

VioletSky

Diamondlily

Some people are saying that they have or want to just move on from the relationship

I'm just saying that isn't me and what I would need to move forward.

Which is why I mentioned joint therapy, I would have been happy to do that.

I think it's OK to be both, moving on and finding happiness in life but still open to the situation changing in some way.

I don't know that anyone has to know what specific reasons were to offer apology and accountability. Maybe it is enough to just say "I understand that our relationship has made you unhappy enough to leave it and I am so sorry for that, I am willing to do what is necessary to have a good relationship with you".

Obviously that's not a one size fits all answer and I'm just thinking aloud here.

I estranged my ex MIL, over 40 years ago, because of her escalating vile behaviour over 7 years. The day I walked out of her life, forever, I left no uncertainty as to why. I laid it all out there.

My mother could be a nightmare, but I chose not to estrange. However, if I had wanted to estrange, I could still have laid the reasons out there - not one specific incident, but her continual undermining, put downs, scapegoating and showering me with negativity. I would have known why, and so would she.

Estranging a parent or child, in my view, is a major thing, so surely, whether it's specific incidents or general parenting, an estranger must know why they want to estrange.

Even if it's just you don't like a parent, then that's a reason. Sharing DNA doesn't mean you have to like someone.

I certainly wouldn't give some vague apology to my kids, because if I didn't know what the issue was, it could happen again. You can only change things if you know what actually needs to change and be apologised for.

ACs blaming parents, expecting some sort of restitution, but not explaining why, sounds very controlling.

Diamondlily why is it controlling?

I sat and explained, I wrote it out in letters, I offered counselling. It didn't help me. Either my reasons didn't happen, weren't that big of a deal or I was just too sensitive.

I wouldn't blame anyone for not listing reasons, I don't think people owe an explanation for leaving a relationship because we do not owe anyone a relationship no matter who they are.

Perhaps though, there are ways to acknowledge and apologise without the reasons that could open dialogue in relationships where neither party is abusive.

Thanks for our understanding Violetsky. I just wanted to say that I do agree with you in principle.

I think emotional pain can feel quite overwhelming sometimes, and perhaps we can want to disengage if we don't have the emotional maturity or communication skills to feel confident about being able to solve things by talking about them.

Sometimes it can feel quite pointless, not with my son but other family members that have entrenched ideas. I suppose in those cases, I tend to go quiet rather than cause a confrontation. What is the point of confronting something that the other person won't ever admit?

It's true though, no one should be an emotional punchbag or door mat. I don't believe in apologising for the sake of it, but I suppose you could say you're sorry if you have caused pain, if you felt it was the right thing to do.

VioletSky

Diamondlily why is it controlling?

I sat and explained, I wrote it out in letters, I offered counselling. It didn't help me. Either my reasons didn't happen, weren't that big of a deal or I was just too sensitive.

I wouldn't blame anyone for not listing reasons, I don't think people owe an explanation for leaving a relationship because we do not owe anyone a relationship no matter who they are.

Perhaps though, there are ways to acknowledge and apologise without the reasons that could open dialogue in relationships where neither party is abusive.

Well, then obviously, you did explain and your reasons were rejected. Fair enough.

But, to get back to the OP, she hasn't got a clue why she's been estranged. A totally different scenario to yours.

Yes, anyone can estrange. Their life is their own.

But, it's totally pointless expecting some sort of acknowledgement or apology, if one party doesn't know what the issues are.

It doesn't have to be abuse, but there must be reasons.

Diamondlily Allsorts has already said she needs to move forward as things are which is completely valid.

In that situation, daughter made allegations that Allsorts is sure aren't true. So daughter did give reasons just not ones that could be dealt with.

In my case I would be worried about why my child was saying things that weren't true and I would do anything within my power to stay in their life to get them help but I'm just repeating myself now.

As I keep saying, if reasons are wanted, one way of opening that dialogue could be to say "I understand that our relationship made you so unhappy you had to leave it and I am so sorry for that, I am willing to do what it takes to have a good relationship with you".

I don't expect anyone to agree, that's just how I would handle it, we aren't all the same.

No, everyone's different, as you say.

We all have to deal with life as best we can, but, for me, that wouldn't be pandering to anything I would see as "untruths".

I would consider carefully if what they were saying was true, but unless I could see it, then there is nowhere to go with it.

In that scenario, it's best that everyone just does their own thing, and moves on.

I prefer to allow an opportunity for my mother to change.

If I didn't have a good relationship with a partner or a friend, that is replaceable.

I only have 1 mother and I only have my children. Those are holes that cannot be filled, the only choice is to make everything around them beautiful.

While my life is happier, more accomplished and healthier without her, that's something she is missing out on due to her own behaviour. That's both sad and true. Feelings aren't an on and off switch.

The adult children who coldly seem to cut their parents out of their lives with little explanation - I wonder if they realise that their own children are watching and learning such awful behaviour. Sometimes you reap what you sow.

Re. your post earlier @ 14.16 DL, you would think that an apology given without knowing what it's for would be pointless for the recipient and meaningless so why would anyone want one under those circumstances? I certainly wouldn't, and nor would I be prepared to pander to untruths.

I can see that your son never having estranged you, but going quiet, which of course would have been very painful for you Onward would make a difference.

When you're told you're no longer a part of their lives and are to stay away, it's perfectly understandable and reasonable IMO that you want to know why. Like you, "I don't believe in apologising for the sake of it".

Yes, I think it's cold, cruel and cowardly netflixfan when no explanation is forthcoming, or if the one provided is untrue.

Netflixfan
I doubt many adult children just walk away coldly without any reason.
My own children know I don’t like their grandmother, but they continue to visit her, as does my husband from time to time.
She of course is a different person with them, but I don’t bad mouth her, and I don’t mind them seeing her.
I think it’s a little more confusing for my grandchildren.

It's good that your children still see their GM Sara, it's such a shame when the GC lose out on that relationship and FWIW, I admire you for enabling that relationship to continue.

Yes I do think people reap what they sow.

My mother treated her mother appallingly before she died and now she lost her own daughter. Her father was abusive and I do believe her stories of him.

My children (with their blessing) watched me estrange a person who treated me awfully and have now learned we don't have to have relationships with people who don't treat us well.

I agree that generally you reap what you sow, but where does it all go wrong?
My mother was an exemplary and loving daughter, and a cold, spiteful mother.
Doesn’t make sense.

I wish I knew sara then maybe we could fix it. Something must happen I suppose, some sort of trigger. I wonder if post natal depression could be a factor in some cases

I see the ‘reap what you sow’ comment as a rather sweeping generalisation. There are estranged parents who post about being estranged by adult children with drug/alcohol/mental health problems.

Some will respond by suggesting parents are entirely responsible for the behaviours and choices of their adult children. Sometimes, it’s obvious that abuse or neglect are behind substance misuse or mental health problems, but not always. I’ve known families with 5 children, only one of whom has those kind of problems

Sara1954”She is of course a Different person with them”

This is very true. We all have different relationships with family members.

My own mum was a hard task master as most mums were in those days ,but she was putty when dealing with her grandchildren … My siblings and I thought that was funny.

I wish people did always reap what they sow Iam, I wish we had with both our sons and not just one. It's wrong to suggest parents are entirely responsible for the choices their AC make, and the way they behave.

Smileless2012

I wish people did always reap what they sow Iam, I wish we had with both our sons and not just one. It's wrong to suggest parents are entirely responsible for the choices their AC make, and the way they behave.

I think I'm having that on my gravestone SL2012.

not a bad idea Gagajo.

Violetsky
I think you’re probably spot on regarding post natal depression, sometimes the only explanation I can find for her behaviour was mental illness, never talked about of course.
It’s a sad fact, but a lot of people don’t reap what they sow, I agree, life would be fairer if they did.