Pregnant and abusive daughter

A good point Madgran, the f.i.l. may well have thought about any possible ramifications had he not told them about the 'phone call. I agree that for the sake of a simple response from OP's D, this could have been avoided.

Hopefully the OP will be able to give some thought to her D's and s.i.l's perspective. Hard to do at the time if you're feeling cornered and what you believe are false allegations being made.

Egg shell walking just increases the levels of stress and anxiety not just for her but family too. As you say, it can be a very fine line between being overbearing and expressing love and concern, and not replying to 'phone messages for 4 days can simply exacerbate the problem.

No, I'm quite happy with the responses I've given, the way I've expressed them and my humanity Herefornow.

A beautifully written post about such a tragic event DiamondLily.

Thank goodness that for the OP, her D and s.i.l. and both families that the baby's heart is alright and everything appears to be OK.

No doubt the stress and anxiety will be there until the safe delivery of this much loved child and GC.

It's important that the EAC here are allowed to just have imput without being treated like they have some sort of ulterior motive (I have no idea why) or that they are children needing to be kept in line by estranged parents.

We are all affected by estrangement, we all have ideas about what could go wrong in relationships or how to look at issues from different perspectives. Just let people try to help in their own way without constantly trying to turn these threads into an argument that doesn't help OP at all.

It's so exhausting

Chances are, the daughter turned off her phone to get a break from things. It’s incredibly difficult to support another person through the crisis you’re going through.

It’s very possible that the daughter simply didn’t have the emotional bandwidth to offer to anyone else, including her mother. OP says they all went to pieces. Completely understandable, but her daughter may have felt she simply couldn’t deal with her mother’s emotions on top of her own.

Not everyone is good in a crisis, or handles things the way others think they should. I’m not going to judge a woman who was terrified for the life of her unborn baby for not answering calls or texts.

I am confused. Why are the EAC on this thread being accused of calling the OP an abusive mother? The only time abuse was mentioned was in the OP about the daughter.

Just let people try to help in their own way without constantly trying to turn these threads into an argument that doesn't help OP at all

I do agree VS that arguments on threads can be exhausting. I think that all posters, both EAC and EPs, should be allowed to just have input without being treated like they have some sort of ulterior motive or possibly hidden agenda. I think that quite often it is the manner in which views are expressed that causes problems to arise in threads -sarcasm, highly emotive language, generalisations etc which may or may not be intended to press other posters buttons!!

I have never worked out why anyone would think that such a posting manner would help an OP in pain, asking for help though. At risk of repeating myself, it is perfectly possible to give hard messages in a way that can be "heard" and thought about, to ask pertinent questions that help an OP to consider perspectives, and those who are here to genuinely try to help, tend to do that I think.

Let's hope the OP can find a way through and that some posts on this thread assist her with that

Indeed Madgran it's often not what's said that causes problems but how it's said.

"sarcasm, highly emotive language, generalisations etc" don't help anyone; the OP and those contributing to the discussion. It's not always just the OP who is in pain, some of those responding can be in pain too.

Have you considered that actually, it could be how it's read. There isn't any tone or inflection in type

But actually, most threads, it really isn't EAC starting arguments or policing threads and it's exhausting

Moving on

Have you considered that actually, it could be how it's read. There isn't any tone or inflection in type

Yes that can be true Violet, I agree. However the words used and style can also impact even when there is no tone or inflection.

I can't comment on who starts or "polices" threads as I know I would be generalising on my own anecdotal observations. I can only comment on my observations of what I read from different posters at a specific time , but as I said my observation would be that generally those posters who TRULY want to help, whether EAC or EP, tend not to be the ones starting the arguments and the arguments often start from a post being expressed with emotive language that presses buttons.

Yes I find unnecessary arguments exhausting too! ?

It's not always just the OP who is in pain, some of those responding can be in pain too

True! Which is why buttons get pressed, either deliberaty or inadvertently when posts are expressed unkindly or sarcastically. .

You can start a thread but that doesn't necessarily mean you want to police it, and it isn't only the OP who expresses frustration when a thread appears to be being derailed.

I agree with your observation Madgran that those who really want to help don't start arguments because arguments don't help anyone do they.

IMO a post expressed unkindly or sarcastically is deliberate, there's no need to be either is there.

Well OP hasn’t been back.

I agree Smileless. it is a shame that on some support threads someone comes along with the intent of derailing it or just posts to cause an argument because that is what they want. Best just ignore them ]smile] and comment to support the original poster or others who clearly are needing it.

Sometimes the best thing you can do for someone is be blunt. Bluntly, i hope op is off apologising to her daughter and sil so that fences can be mended and the relationship can get back on track.

Sometimes the best thing you can do for someone is be blunt

Which, if expressed unkindly/sarcastically etc will successfully NOT be "heard" by someone who is emotional, upset and possibly making some very poor decisions.

Being honest, asking pertinent and difficult questions, raising difficult perspectives for considerations, presenting someone with reasons why their behaviour may be inappropriate or have caused the problems they are upset about can ALL be done without being unkind.

SOME posters manage that, some do not...which is a pity!

Herefornow I don't mind blunt advice, you are always welcome to send some my way

Interestingly I don't mind "blunt" advice either Violet but I can see when how it's expressed doesn't help people who are obviously emotional and upset! I expect we have all experienced that at some point.

You don't tend to give "blunt" advice yourself Violet...you do give honest advice that may not be easy to hear but is expressed in a way that someone might be able to "hear" and that might help them! In fact I commented on that on another thread today, but I can't remember which one, where I thought your advice was helpful and constructively expressed in a way that could be used by the OP to consider options! Which is the best way to try to help people really.

Madgran that was nice of you to say, I quite often agree with you too

On the topic of bluntness, I guess that's just who some people are and I'm not about to tell them they can't participate unless they put on some sort of fake front I suppose?

I think blunt people also make me feel comfortable. There is never any wriggle room, there is no possibility of double meanings or misunderstandings. It's just simple and straight to the point and that feels safe.

Everything my mum used to say seemed to have a double meaning. Especially if challenged.

Whereas you and I... Are we twisting ourselves into knots, over thinking, analysing vocabulary to always try to put things as kindly as possible on difficult subjects fearing upset? I can't really tell sometimes as with my upbringing it's ingrained to do that unless I'm seriously triggered.

I would be more worried if people spoke to me differently than they did others if that makes sense

No she hasn't Allsorts which I hope doesn't mean that she hasn't been helped by some of the responses given here.

Yes it is a shame when that happens love0c, especially when that often means the OP doesn't come back.

One persons bluntness is another persons rudeness Madgran and it's not difficult to see when it's for good or ill.

One persons bluntness is another persons rudeness Madgran and it's not difficult to see when it's for good or ill

True! .

On the topic of bluntness, I guess that's just who some people are

Maybe but even in that context there is honest bluntness and then there is downright rude and very unkind bluntness!! Which is a shame!

Are we twisting ourselves into knots, over thinking, analysing vocabulary to always try to put things as kindly as possible on difficult subjects fearing upset?

I know I'm not; I think honest and constructively expressed comment can still cause upset but in a constructive way that enables someone to consider their situation from different perspectives even in their upset. Which is more helpful to them!

Allsorts no the OP has not returned but I hope at least some posts on here have helped her thinking, rather than she has been driven away by some of the less constructive comments . She may not have the energy to post even if she is reading.

Blunt is an interesting adjective Madgran. 'a blunt knife' not having a sharp edge or point, but even a blunt knife can cause damage. It simply requires more force to inflict an injury but that doesn't mean an injury cannot be inflicted.

TBH I don't think there's a difference between honest bluntness and bluntness. It is what it is and I don't think it's ever appropriate on a thread where someone is sharing an upsetting and painful experience.

Your knife analogy is a very pertinent one Smileless and makes a lot of sense.

"Blunt" is not a word I would use myself, but as it was introduced on the thread I have tried to differentiate between "honest bluntness" as opposed to "rude, just plain unkind bluntness" to draw a distinction between constructively trying to help and just being unkind. With hindsight I might have been better to move away from the word "blunt"!

Madgran.