8 things we should avoid saying to an estranged child.

VioletSky

Madgran no one could doubt that the relationship between patent and child is so important, especially for the child.

So after thinking about it this list is probably so important when the relationship starts to wobble and could even help prevent estrangement at all?

That is absolutely true. But if the estrangement is already in place and the person estranged is unhappy about it and expressing why the estranger is wrong then the list can be considered but in the end the "Accept it" seems to be the only message.

I suppose this is different than perhaps who the list is intended for though ...as in people not directly involved, relatives trying to be helpful maybe.

If an estranged person does not accept an estrangement and tries to use a relative as a go between, and the relative sees that the estranger is making a decision in order to protect themselves, then I think my comment is possibly the only answer to give really. And to the person who has made the decision in the circumstances I described previously, one can only say really "Do what is best for you!". None of which is easy for anyone involved

Madgran

I wouldn't ever say to someone who has been estranged "accept it"

But I would hope when I am telling anyone else I meet that I am estranged, they could accept that and see that I am far more than an estranged daughter

The list of 8 are similar to the list of what not to say to a bereaved person. I'm not sure that a list helps because everyone is different.
When DH died most people were very understanding and kind but there's always someone who says something a bit odd.
I think the commonest one was telling me they knew exactly how I was feeling and that
time is a great healer.

listening and acknowledging what has been said before speaking

Hmmm.. not sure that that would have much effect in many cases. From what I've witnessed, both the estranged, and the estranger, are so emotionally overwrought and full of anger, resentment and absolute conviction that they're the injured party, that no one listens to any one, especially each other. I've seen it happen on these forums.
But if, as madgran suggests, your aiming these helpful hints and tips to independent friends or bystanders to whom one is just unburdening themselves; I'd that DiamondLily's advice is sound. Listen, smile and say nothing.

I wouldn't ever say to someone who has been estranged "accept it"

I think I would when it relates to someone who has been estranged because of eg very serious financial abuse, and I had certainty of that financial (and emotional) abuse.

But I would hope when I am telling anyone else I meet that I am estranged, they could accept that and see that I am far more than an estranged daughter

Yes I see that in your context as the person who estranged as opposed to me listening/talking to someone (at their instigation, not mine) who has been estranged because of something specific and evidenced that they did, and is not accepting the estrangement.

The list of 8 are similar to the list of what not to say to a bereaved person. I'm not sure that a list helps because everyone is different

I think a list is a guide, something to think about Grammaretto , its not definitive and as you say we are all different

Bereavement can certainly be a "minefield" in terms of what people say, however well meant! Know it well!

Exactly Grammaretto, everyone is different and I'd imagine is well nigh impossible to have a list that covers all eventualities, every personality and every situation without, at some point, someone saying something off kilter.

But I would hope when I am telling anyone else I meet that I am estranged, they could accept that and see that I am far more than an estranged daughter.
vs I'm afraid that I can't imagine that scenario occurring; why would anyone need to know to
judge who or what one is? I've been estranged from mine for well over 20 years and I've never had an occasion when I've ever felt it necessary or appropriate to share my business with any one outside of my friendship groups. But once they were aware, the subject never arose again and I've certainly never been judged because of it. Why would I? It doesn't define me and never has.

‘Why would I? It doesn’t define me and never has’. Strong words Chewbacca.
My feeling is that being defined by a tragedy, an abusive relationship, by your status as a parent/non parent, profession or employment is like living in a strait jacket. Estrangement may not define us but in its early days can exhaust and dominate. Moving on, refusing to be so defined and not expecting others to understand our specific stuff -that avoids being defined

Thank you Iam64. Your analogy of like living in a straight jacket is how I see it too. I'd hate to feel that people were having to tip toe around me, trying not to use words or phrases that would upset or annoy me; I wouldn't want to put that burden on anyone. As you say, the early days are difficult and it did dominate conversations with close friends for a couple of months, but a sense of peace and equanimity quickly descended! I worked with my colleagues for over 18 years and I don't think I even mentioned it to them!

I'm afraid that I can't imagine that scenario occurring; why would anyone need to know to judge who or what one is? I've been estranged from mine for well over 20 years and I've never had an occasion when I've ever felt it necessary or appropriate to share my business with any one outside of my friendship groups. But once they were aware, the subject never arose again and I've certainly never been judged because of it. Why would I? It doesn't define me and never has

Which presumably means that your friends do recognise you as more than an estranged daughter Chewbacca!

My observation would be that some people do seem to struggle to see beyond the estrangement for various reasons, but when that is the case, maybe they ae not the right people to be engaging with for one's own well being, which is a choice one can make as an individual.

This list was compiled by an estranged child, so it is biased on her experience. You cannot generalise that much. First of all I wouldn’t say anything to someone estranged, it’s not my business. I don’t know what went on, don’t know if there is any mental health issues so I can I comment. I do know as a parent or a child you can’t watch everything you say unless it’s misinterpreted. There could be sibling rivalry and envy. A lot of times it’s people just not getting on or mismatched expectations. What works in one family doesn’t in another.
I do think if it’s not abuse, I have a duty to my family, but I think many people do not feel that way, they find it easier to cut off. Some people don’t have a conscience. You can’t have a list and say if you keep to that all will be well.
There are lousy and awful parents and also of equally dreadful children..

Peg Streep has been a wonderful support for many estranged children and her articles are based on our needs

Obviously this list is asked as a kindness to estranged children only

When you care about someone you take an interest in their lives and I do know two people who are EPs. I have wondered what happened - not idle curiosity but wishing to understand what life has been like for them.
In one case I completely understood how the estrangement came about. The other one, I think the EC has mental health issues, I see only the pain of the estrangement.

You can’t have a list and say if you keep to that all will be well

I agree Allsorts although I am not sure that is the purpose of the list really. It is something to think about and use/not use as a guide I suppose if in a relevant situation.

For myself I keep coming back to the scenario I have described where the person estranged (the daughter) who financially and emotionally abused the estranger (her mother) cannot accept the estrangement! The estranger is protecting herself from that person. In that scenario a lack of acceptance of the estrangement highlights that the risk of further abuse is high therefore the estranger is absolutely entitled to protect themselves and attempts to ignore her wishes increase that risk.

Which just shows that there are no hard and fast rules really. Just guidelines to think about if relevant to one's own situation.

For those who have made the decision to estrange I imagine for some, hearing those statements imade is difficult

I have a colleague who is an EP, we both know about each other.

If I am honest, she is not well liked but she has always been kind to me.

She mothers me a little.

We have never questioned each other about our estrangement but it comes out in regular conversation at times when people ask about what you are doing for Christmas or holidays etc.

Plus my mother had herself put on the parent email list and I had to ask for her to be taken off and explain why.

I also have a colleague whose mother is like mine but she is low contact rather than estranged...

None of us have needed this list it's true but in other situations I have sadly heard every single one of them...

It really doesn't help relationships so that's why I shared

Sadly, I have experienced the scenario Chewbacca, so yes it does happen. I am happy that you report that has never happened to you. If only that was the case in every single case of estrangement.

Yes Allsorts. This list is titled what not to say to am estranged adult child. I would not expect it to address other groups of people who are not estranged children so a generalization would be expected in this case. I suppose it is like any topic. If it does not apply to you, pass it by and read something else that does.

Grammaretto, I agree. I read similar lists when I was experiencing multiple miscarriages. And when my dad died. Sometimes people just do not know what to say when they are trying to be supportive.

I recognise some of the things on the list as things said by a non-estranging sibling. They felt like an assault on my decision at the time. In fact, they were a defence of hers. It's very easy to feel the need to justify ourselves to others and that justification can feel like an attack on their position.

Sometimes people just do not know what to say when they are trying to be supportive.

Yes, that's very true. They feel the need to say something, but their awkwardness and keeness not to say "the wrong thing" sometimes comes out all wrong.

Exactly Chewbacca.

Oh definitely, that's why a list like this could prevent a lot of unintentional upset

Forewarned is forearmed

But I don't believe that people do set out to intentionally upset the estranged or the bereaved; most people have too much going on in their own lives to be getting on with, without getting involved in other people's family strifes. Unless they said something crass like "So, how's your mum and dad then?" whilst knowing that you were estranged; but that's pretty unlikely in most situations. And if they do do that, it's time they went too!

But I don't believe that people do set out to intentionally upset the estranged or the bereaved; most people have too much going on in their own lives to be getting on with, without getting involved in other people's family strifes

Yes I agree generally Chewbacca

I agree as well. I 100% believe that the majority of people in the world are good and do not have bad intentions.

I think that articles such as these are meant for people who are looking on how to support someone.

For example (fictional); my coworker said she was estranged when I asked her about holiday plans. Since I have never been estranged, I am not sure how best to support her. So I do an internet search and this article comes up. I read it and now feel better prepared to have future conversations.

This list could be used for many different life struggles, like bereavement. They are not written to tell people what to do. They are written specifically for people who are trying to learn how to better support others IF they are searching for the help on that particular topic.

Dfinitely agree if people keep saying this sort of thing after we have been honest and said it is painful then they aren't good people and are best avoided

Hmmm.. not sure that that would have much effect in many cases. From what I've witnessed, both the estranged, and the estranger, are so emotionally overwrought and full of anger, resentment and absolute conviction that they're the injured party, that no one listens to any one, especially each other.

This is so true! I have listened to a mother who has estranged her children and if I am ever stupid enough to try to discuss it with her, it soon descends into a rant of hurt feelings and righteous indignation. Sadly, I can see her children have tried to address the problems they have had as children with her but it has spectacularly backfire. At the same time, I can see how damaged she has been from her childhood and she just didn't have the skills to give them a more stable childhood. I haven't involved myself with them but I expect they are as bewildered, hurt and feeling justified as she is.
My feeling is it is probably best to hold your counsel if you want to maintain a relationship with the estranged until they know you well enough to know that whatever you say, it is said without malice or intent to hurt.