Do abusive people know they are abusive?

No it didn't feel normal when it happened.

Definitely not they are always right in everything they do and you are always wrong speaking from experience

VioletSky

I feel ready to take away her remaining headspace

Recently I realised the hope was gone the she could ever change.

The other day I read:

"It's dangerous and dismissive to assume that because we talk about our stories, we still exist inside them"

And it really made me think, what is left? What more can I let go of?

This question was the last thing puzzling me.

That is actually an example of the love and empathy I still have for her as my mother...

That's what needs to go

One peice of work I have done over the years is from the book "Family secrets - What you don’t know can’t hurt you" by John Bradshaw. It's only avaliable to buy in book form. The link to it is at the bottom

It's was part of alot of years of different therapy. There are practical written tasks to do in the book which really were beneficial to me.

I came from a very nice childhood on the surface: it was full of secrets, lies, violence (Dad) s*xual abuse by a cousin. Everything was covered up as it was then.

The ex was also violent. I have happily remarried since and broke the chains.

I think subconsciously they know though will never admit it. I don't think they know how too. DeNial is not just a river in Egypt.

Letting go is a lifelong process as are any indepth emotional scars

Family Secrets: What you don't know can hurt you amzn.eu/d/169KfDU

Should say "can hurt you" in the first paragraph

Good grief no Kate there's nothing normal about beating up a child. I get so angry when I hear people who are responsible others that they were abused as a child.

To inflict abuse onto someone else, when you know exactly what that's going to feel like is simply horrendous.

Exactly Smileless.

I have known abusers who blame the person they have abused for being upset, and then expect the upset person to apologise to them for getting upset! Work that one out.
I have also known abusers who blame the abused person for being upset, saying it is their fault for feeling this way and not the abuser's. In other words, you control your own feelings, so if you get upset, it's your fault. Crazy and twisted. Best avoided.

Not sure you can avoid your father!

Thank you Keffie I will have a look!

Some like to completely rewrite history, even to the point that they'll now be openly critical about another abuser's behaviour in front of the person they themselves previously abused.

There is a good acronym for that

DARVO

Deny, Attack, Reverse the role of Victim and Offender

Kate1949

No it didn't feel normal when it happened.

I worked in a child protection department for a number of years, with abused children.

It never ceased to amaze me seeing the cruelty and abuse that some adults were capable of.?

And the sad thing is that it doesn't seem to have changed much.

Week after week there are headlines about babies and children being maimed/killed by their parents/carers.?

It has to be seen to be believed doesn't it Childofthe60s.

Each time we're told 'it wont happen again' and every time it does DL. I can't listen to the details or read about them anymore.

I'm just going to copy my comment from another thread.

The thing that concerns me is that these poor murdered children are the very tip of the iceberg.

They are what's visible.

Then there are all those mistreated in childhood with lifelong depression, anxiety, addiction issues, personality disorders and the many who suicide.

I've had extensive safeguarding training and I am passionate about protecting children from abuse having come from an abusive background.

You would be amazed by how many don't take me seriously, tell me my experience makes me too biased to discuss it and don't even agree with what constitutes abuse let alone how serious a problem it is in society.

So many disregard their own children's needs and feelings and are so quick to forget how easy it is to negatively impact a person just because you think you know better or don't agree they should feel the way they do.

Children are intelligent, perceptive, individual and worthy of respect.

We have to start teaching society that.

Children are intelligent, perceptive, individual and worthy of respect.

Indeed they are.

Smileless2012

It has to be seen to be believed doesn't it Childofthe60s.

Each time we're told 'it wont happen again' and every time it does DL. I can't listen to the details or read about them anymore.

Yes, I had to attend Great Ormond Street and other hospitals more than a few times, where babies/young children had either died, or were dying or maimed, because of what parents/carers had done to them.?

It puts things into perspective. I'm sad, though, that more and more professional people are involved with young parents nowadays, yet it still happens, time and time again.?

There are some very wise, understanding people on this thread.
Yes abuse can leave you with life long depression, anxiety, sometimes suicide (one of my siblings).
I was only beaten up once due to a minor misdemeanor. One of my sisters had it worse than me. And of course our mother.
As Lily says, it doesn't seem to have improved.

Kate1949

There are some very wise, understanding people on this thread.
Yes abuse can leave you with life long depression, anxiety, sometimes suicide (one of my siblings).
I was only beaten up once due to a minor misdemeanor. One of my sisters had it worse than me. And of course our mother.
As Lily says, it doesn't seem to have improved.

Yes, physical violence should be spotted easily. It's the one form of abuse where there is immediate proof and evidence.

It still gets missed though, or agencies faff about, passing it around, achieving nothing.

So sad for these kids.?

Well in the 1950s when this happened to me, there was no one to go to. They kept me off school until my cuts and bruises had healed but I honestly don't think the school would have noticed (or indeed cared). Catholic nuns were as bad.
I remember when very small going to the police station with my sister to tell them what was going on. The sergeant said 'Go home girls. We can't help you'.

Kate1949

Well in the 1950s when this happened to me, there was no one to go to. They kept me off school until my cuts and bruises had healed but I honestly don't think the school would have noticed (or indeed cared). Catholic nuns were as bad.
I remember when very small going to the police station with my sister to tell them what was going on. The sergeant said 'Go home girls. We can't help you'.

Yes, some people have had very bad experiences. ?

To be honest, it might be helpful if GransNet perhaps created a separate section around childhood/child abuse - either personal experiences, or in general.

Estrangement covers many things, and not that many are about childhood abuse. Some are, but most seem to be about "adult" issues. ?

Kate1949@ 15.43 I'm truly shocked and appalled that 2 little girls would be told to go home; that's appalling and I'm so sorry it happened to you.

DiamondLilly I'm not sure a separate thread would be useful. I would be constantly whinging on it! However, I do agree that this one has been somewhat sidetracked.
Chewbacca. I'm not sure it was shocking for the time. It was the norm in my experience.

Kate1949

DiamondLilly I'm not sure a separate thread would be useful. I would be constantly whinging on it! However, I do agree that this one has been somewhat sidetracked.
Chewbacca. I'm not sure it was shocking for the time. It was the norm in my experience.

A seperate section would allow for discussion. The problem, is on estrangement threads is that some people feel they were abused, some estrange, some don't. Some definitely were abused, from what they post.

But, the vast majority of estrangements, on here, occur, in adulthood, for a variety of reasons, not many to do with childhood abuse.

It can also be about in-laws, adult children just stropping, or money,?

The answer runs from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Yes, some people are abusive and know it and do it deliberately and enjoy causing pain and distress to ther people, especially if they are smaller and weaker.

At the other end there are people who are weak, struggling to cope, have only ever experienced abuse themselves, do not know how to love and nuture and the abuse is the result of their inability to deal with whatever they are faced with

And then there are all the cases that fall between the two extremes.

It's hard to know how to respond to you Kate. I'm so sorry is just so inadequate, but I am so sorry . I don't suppose the police in the 1950's could have helped you even if they wanted too.

The law didn't help them to help the adult victims of domestic abuse either.