Harry: "I want my Father back. I want my brother back"

You're right Norah they probably will never meet but one day they'll be old enough to access this rubbish on line and 2 of William's children are at school, with children who may be hearing about this because their parents are talking about it.

For all we know, Harry could be coming out with this rubbish for years so sadly plenty of time for William's children to find out what their uncle's been saying about their father.

Evidently Harry has said that “the ball is in their court”.
How does that work? He’s hurled accusation after accusation at his family, some of which may be true and some not. The problem being that once some things are seen to be untrue, doubt is cast on all that is said.
What does he want to happen?

He's trying to goad the RF to respond. He'll go crazy when they continue to maintain a dignified silence.

I think you're right Aveline.

He's been invited to the Coronation and it's almost as if he thinks he has some sway over them Mollygo, that it will look bad for his father if he decides not to go.

IMO it would be best all round if he stays away.

Mollygo

Evidently Harry has said that “the ball is in their court”.
How does that work? He’s hurled accusation after accusation at his family, some of which may be true and some not. The problem being that once some things are seen to be untrue, doubt is cast on all that is said.
What does he want to happen?

Um, he keeps putting the ball back in his court.
Does he not realise that?

I used to feel sorry for him, but now I despair at his stupidity.

Aveline

He's trying to goad the RF to respond. He'll go crazy when they continue to maintain a dignified silence.

Amen to that 🤞🤞🤞

Meanwhile over on Mumsnet they are laughing themselves silly about the description of losing his virginity

They are indeed, understandably so! I imagine all sorts of dubious women will try to sell stories saying it was them.

Meanwhile I put this story in Estrangement and I have no regrets- because you have one estranged person (M) who married someone (H) who is now estranged from their family. Many people love to criticise estranged parents because they have no idea- so if this gets people talking about estrangement perhaps it can help someone.

Right now, I'm grateful not to be in the RF or Harry's child. Why do young people who estrange often only think of themselves and not their kids or parents? So much foolishness from Harry that can only highlight the fact when people estrange from their families, they cause many generations to be hurt.

For example, my son since he estranged has not bothered to see his Grandparent's. No, it's all about him. He doesn't care that his kids loved to see us. Nope. It's all about him being in control.

Harry caused his Grandmother, the Queen much upset. I guess MH is at the root, but it's so destructive.

The RF are doing what most families try to do when they have one junior member behaving as badly as they can and trying to goad them into saying things they will regret. They keep their heads down and say nothing, so that once the junior member matures and calms down a bit, it is easier to build bridges.

King Charles, like most parents loves both his children dearly and wants to put no barriers between his younger son and himself that might later inhibit a reconciliation. Prince William must be looking more at his children and be trying to show his own children how to learn a different pattern of sibling relationships.

Currently Prince Harry reminds me of the average 'terrible two year old' screaming and shouting to make everyone take notice of them and do what they want, and when they are ignored screaming and shouting all the more to equal lack of effect until finally they collapse in a heap, when they realise that they are not going to get their own way, regardless of the effect it has on other people. Usually at that stage a loving parent picks up the child and loves them and comforts them and the tantrum is quietly forgotten. I am not sure that conclusion can be relied on when you are dealing with a terrible two in his late 30s.

OnwardandUpward that is so sad.

Harry's children have not met their maternal grandfather at all. A child could have a difficult relationship with a parent but that parent could have a completely different relationship with their grandchildren.

They will not, in all probability, see their paternal family either now and will miss out on those relationships which could bring a different dimension to their lives.

It's all very sad.

It's true Monica. As a parent, if you cant reason with them, you have to let them calm down.
Yes Calistemon21, those poor children have no grandparents except maybe Doria. The could have been loved by so many people and had cousins and fun.

I'm sure Doria is a lovely grandmother and I hope she stays close to those children.

I agree Callistemon. I put up with my mil for the sake of my children and dh. We could easily have estranged after the way she behaved. It did mean biting my tongue on several occasions.

I agree with everything M0nica said but most of all I feel it’s a sad, sad situation for all of them …

Meghan Markle was not estranged from her father until the wedding. So quite how you can accuse her of being estranged and then responsible for further estrangement it's difficult to understand. H has said if she hadn't married him she would still be in contact with her father.
I don't think any of us can appreciate how difficult it could be to have a family member make money and sell private information to tabloid newspapers.
What is really funny is that some posters condemning H&M for trading on their connections and revealing family secrets apparently think they should just put up with the behaviour of Thomas Markle and reconcile with him. Shouldn't then Charles and William do the same with H&M?

I read that Megan had been estranged from the Markles for years, including her dad and sisters, but who knows what is correct. I didnt say she caused estrangement, but pointed out that this mess is a result of two estranged people and their estranged families, which is going to impact on the next generation.

I don't believe in putting up. Ideally they'd get mediation and counselling to bring about change if all parties were willing. Estrangement is a sort of Avoidance and of side stepping of issues not faced. It would be best avoided for all generations, though it will be hard for Charles to trust H because of all this and hard for H to trust because he seems paranoid.

Glorianny

Meghan Markle was not estranged from her father until the wedding. So quite how you can accuse her of being estranged and then responsible for further estrangement it's difficult to understand. H has said if she hadn't married him she would still be in contact with her father.
I don't think any of us can appreciate how difficult it could be to have a family member make money and sell private information to tabloid newspapers.
What is really funny is that some posters condemning H&M for trading on their connections and revealing family secrets apparently think they should just put up with the behaviour of Thomas Markle and reconcile with him. Shouldn't then Charles and William do the same with H&M?

And yet you seem perfectly happy with Harry to make money off selling private information via his interviews and books? You need to decide which is right, you can't have Thomas Markle wrong and Harry right at the same time. And if the RF should reconcile with H&M then so should H&M with Thomas Markle. Harry made no attempt to meet Thomas Markle before the wedding. Surely at the engagement stage he should have gone to meet him. Not as if he couldn't afford the flight or get time off work.

I think H&M are trying to provoke a response from the RF, which I don't think they will get. If their Sussex titles were removed they would be Prince and Princess Harry, which M would probably consider a promotion from Duchess.

I don’t think any of us can appreciate how difficult it could be to have a family member make money and sell private information…..

Isn’t that just what Harry’s doing?

Lots of children lose mothers early in life sadly but I will never forget the horror I felt watching those two boys walking, stiff upper lip, behind their mothers coffin. I remember saying to my husband, Charles should never have allowed it, it's cruel, the trouble all started because of Charles and Camilla, how that was handled. , Diana loved Charles and went off the rails because she'd been used and cast aside publicly. I really think if c had been the husband she thought she had she would be alive now. Charles didn't like the adoration she got. That's why despite everything, Camilla us a better partner for him. Unfortunately H is completely unstable with a wife to match and with all the anger and bitterness he can muster he's punishing anyone involved. He is having a very public meltdown and the press and news are playing into it with Harry's collaboration that's his mixed up he is, he's got everyone where he thought he wanted them. All actions have consequences and all the money he gets in the process, how Megan clings like a limpet encouraging him more to the edge, the worse all this will be. A person that loved him for himself would be smoothing paths, encrougaging the positives not estranging all so viciously and publicly. This way it's two victims against the world is how they see it. There will be no winners, just losers.
Mental,illness is so hard on everyone involved with that person, eventually to survive you have to distance in most curcumstances, only those without experience could say other.

Re the pen...
I read it was the second (or third even?) and was supposed to have been checked.
Not that it bothers me either way - just thought it may be context.
Who knows.

Should have taken his own - must have one that doesn't leak on his fingers.

I agree with you about walking behind the coffin, Allsorts. I had assumed at the time that the Princes wanted to. To be forced to is awful. To be forced to stuff emotions down is damaging as I know because it's happened to me.

No doubt Harry has awful MH problems and for that we sympathise. Unfortunately mistakes were made in his parenting- and once those mistakes have been made they cannot be unmade.
No one's Mother can pop them back in their tummy and have another go. At some point you have to just do the best with what you've got, get the therapy you can and move forwards.

Re walking behind the coffin. Seemed a bit hard at the time, but we’ll never know for a fact whether he was obliged to do it, felt obliged to do it, or want it to do it because his big brother was doing it.
Most likely is that if he hadn’t done it, we would now be reading that he had suffered such awful trauma because he had been prevented from doing it, by his father and his wicked brother.

William said he was given the choice of walking behind the coffin