Harry: "I want my Father back. I want my brother back"

VioletSky your post at 14.20 raises some interesting points but, as you said at 13.59, this is not about you is it? You do seem to have a tendency to drag your own situation into so many threads and I wonder if perhaps you're still being unduly triggered, hence your reluctance to hear anyone else's point of view?

VioletSky

Estrangement threads mean talking about other people's personal lives to get support for our own

I'm just saying that's the case

It's pretty normal

The Princess of Wales was quoted by the TImes as saying Talk talk therapy is not for everyone and does not always work. I know she is not a medical person but I think a lot of people would agree with her.
I know of two incidences of people who nearly committed suicide after attending a group therapy session one for bereavement and one as her partner had left her.
Ideas were discussed and things put into their heads that they would never have thought of themselves.
You perhaps do and might benefit from professional help not a load of Grans trying to be helpful and in some cases not being.

I think that he is tied to publishing another book?
I believe that the pair of them have a four book deal with Penguin Random House.
Meghan has done her daft The Bench book; and he’s done the even dafter Spare.
Basically, what he’s doing is a trailer for his next performance.
And if you ask me, Meghan’s will be all about her life with Harry, and ultimately leaving Harry.
She won’t want him to overshadow or outsell her.
It will be Meghan’s book that is the real sensation

Callistemon21

Norah

Monica, I am sure from your experience you will agree that each side has to meet each other on an equal basis and each be prepared to accept misbehaviour and misunderstandings on both sides

No.

I have no experience. I doubt each side is equal - somebody has been wronged and somebody needs to offer a real apology.

Harry's parents wronged him terribly, his mother has passed, his father could choose to offer an apology. To me that seems crux to 'Spare'.

Harry's parents wronged him terribly,
According to Harry.

I disagree.

I believe parents are to raise their child without affairs, or write books/give interviews about their embarrassing affairs. Books that are made public, not just "according to Harry" or the "Spare" readership.

I disagree

I believe parents are to raise their child without affairs, or write books/give interviews about their embarrassing affairs. Books that are made public, not just "according to Harry" or the "Spare" readership.

According to that logic, the parents wronged both William and Harry then, not just Harry?

Charles told Dimbebly during the interview that he was "faithful and honorable" to Diana during their marriage "until it became irretrievably broken down, us both having tried."
Diana had many affairs after the marriage broke down.

So do you think it's better for two parents to stay together in a loveless, sterile and unhappy marriage for the sake of the children?
That could make the children very unhappy too.

Some parents manage to separate amicably and continue to have separate loving relationships with their children.

It's the media which ran with these lurid stories which must have caused embarrassment to both boys.

Cakeface

VioletSky your post at 14.20 raises some interesting points but, as you said at 13.59, this is not about you is it? You do seem to have a tendency to drag your own situation into so many threads and I wonder if perhaps you're still being unduly triggered, hence your reluctance to hear anyone else's point of view?

Do you feel better now?

It's bit right to have an affair in a marriage.

If this is someone you end up having a relationship with, it will be very hard for the children to accept the new partner.

Also it's not healthy to teach children to lie to the people they are supposed to love and cheat on them.

If the marriage or relationship is unhappy, leave it first before engaging in erm, outside activities

The children will benefit

Callistemon21

^I disagree^

I believe parents are to raise their child without affairs, or write books/give interviews about their embarrassing affairs. Books that are made public, not just "according to Harry" or the "Spare" readership.

According to that logic, the parents wronged both William and Harry then, not just Harry?

Charles told Dimbebly during the interview that he was "faithful and honorable" to Diana during their marriage "until it became irretrievably broken down, us both having tried."
Diana had many affairs after the marriage broke down.

So do you think it's better for two parents to stay together in a loveless, sterile and unhappy marriage for the sake of the children?
That could make the children very unhappy too.

Some parents manage to separate amicably and continue to have separate loving relationships with their children.

It's the media which ran with these lurid stories which must have caused embarrassment to both boys.

Callistemon21 It's the media which ran with these lurid stories which must have caused embarrassment to both boys.

Yes.

I agree and believe media "stories" are point to his book.

Quite easy, I'd think, for the King and his wife to apologise.

VioletSky

It's bit right to have an affair in a marriage.

If this is someone you end up having a relationship with, it will be very hard for the children to accept the new partner.

Also it's not healthy to teach children to lie to the people they are supposed to love and cheat on them.

If the marriage or relationship is unhappy, leave it first before engaging in erm, outside activities

The children will benefit

I don’t understand this

Change "bit" to "not"

New phone hasn't learned my typing preference

Do you feel better now?

More to the point, do you? As a bystander, it's quite upsetting to watch someone constantly offloading their pain and anguish in public, whether in book form, podcasts, television interviews or in online chatrooms and see that no matter how much they dissect and analyse their experiences, they don't seem to heal from that exposure and they get further and further away from reality. Harry is a perfect example of this. Always blaming others but never accepting or acknowledging their own part in whatever happened and constantly demanding apologies for percieved slights that others will have long forgotten. It's an unhealthy and destructive way to live and at some point, for one's own sanity, it just has to be let go so that a normal and healthy life can flourish .

It may not be ‘right’ VS but human beings are fallible. Life isn’t perfect and nor are the people who live it.

it's not healthy to teach children to lie to the people they are supposed to love and cheat on them and it's not healthy to teach children that it's acceptable to seek to publicly trash and humiliate the people they are suppose to love either.

Cakeface

^Do you feel better now?^

More to the point, do you? As a bystander, it's quite upsetting to watch someone constantly offloading their pain and anguish in public, whether in book form, podcasts, television interviews or in online chatrooms and see that no matter how much they dissect and analyse their experiences, they don't seem to heal from that exposure and they get further and further away from reality. Harry is a perfect example of this. Always blaming others but never accepting or acknowledging their own part in whatever happened and constantly demanding apologies for percieved slights that others will have long forgotten. It's an unhealthy and destructive way to live and at some point, for one's own sanity, it just has to be let go so that a normal and healthy life can flourish .

I have never seen your username before and you feel it appropriate to comment about how I discuss things online and how you perceive my mental state

I'm absolutely fine

This is the estrangement forum and I am estranged so I discuss it here. Of there was a cake forum I would discuss cakes and my personal experience with them. I might also state what I believed was the best way to bake a cake based on my personal experience.

That's forums for you

On estrangement I'm primarily interested in reconciliation so of course it is going to concern me how and why Harry ended up in this position

And whether or not I can empathise and say, did his family stand back and allow certain things to harm him? Well yes I think they have

Basically

Germanshepherdsmum

It may not be ‘right’ VS but human beings are fallible. Life isn’t perfect and nor are the people who live it.

Of course they aren't but that's where accountability comes in isn't it

Norah Perhaps it is the RF that is in the right snd PH who is in the wrong, and perhaps it is he who should do the apologising. Nobody knows because we have only heard one side of the story and many people have taken sides on that basis.

There are very few families who if their story was published in a widely publicised book writtten by one person in their family who feels they are badly done by, wouldn't read like PH's.

The question that arises is whether those memories are ever strictly accurate. Yes, the authors believes they are passionately, but, as the late Queen said, recollections may differ.

Talking family matters over at various times with my sister and DD, I have been surprised how often our memories of the same events can be entirely different. Sometimes we can check things out with someone else, sometimes we can reach an agreed version, at other times we agree to differ. The point of view each of us brings to the memory affects our recollections.

My DD once laid into me about how I had let her down as a teenager. It was a bit of a surprise, but I could recognise what she was saying, but I was also aware that for some things there were reasons for my actions that she didn't know of, others were true but on one accusation she was completely wrong. I said nothing at the time because I wanted to make sure I made no mistakes.

I disscussed the whole event separately with DS and DH, In each case when I mentioned one thing DD said, they both immediately said, she is completely wrong. We all had clear and matching memories of a fairly trivial event we had all been present for that she denied ever happened. It had never been discussed before, it was not a family shattering event. But three of us remembered the event and what happened and she was the centre of it, but DD had been quite ill at the time, which probably explains her lack of memory of the event. I have never dicussed it further with her, some things are best left unsaid.

So my own experiences, this event and others, has left me very doubtful of these personal memories, especially when they are diatribes like PH's and almost entirely uncorrobarated . They are based on memory and intepretation and open conversations within a family may well place different interpretations on the same event, or at least bring an understanding of each sides view of the event and are by far the best way forward before bridges are destroyed irrevocably.

However, let us be realistic, H&M's ideas of the kind of life they wanted to lead in the USA was based on them having a lot of money, and the only way to get that money was to write the kind of book he wrote 'revealing all', the 'poor me' interviews and the clever ghost writers, and, as he said, more volumes may follow (if the funds run low). In our family there is a description of some one determined to make money at all costs. It is: He/She would render their grandmother down for lard, (if they could make money on it). This is rather what he has done.

Smileless2012

^it's not healthy to teach children to lie to the people they are supposed to love and cheat on them^ and it's not healthy to teach children that it's acceptable to seek to publicly trash and humiliate the people they are suppose to love either.

Why do you say that as if that's what I think?

But often times people do blame others for how they react to their behaviour

If this family wants to mend things they need to start at the beginning and work forward rather than at the end and work backwards

Which is another major cause of estrangement

Norah

Callistemon21

I disagree

I believe parents are to raise their child without affairs, or write books/give interviews about their embarrassing affairs. Books that are made public, not just "according to Harry" or the "Spare" readership.

According to that logic, the parents wronged both William and Harry then, not just Harry?

Charles told Dimbebly during the interview that he was "faithful and honorable" to Diana during their marriage "until it became irretrievably broken down, us both having tried."
Diana had many affairs after the marriage broke down.

So do you think it's better for two parents to stay together in a loveless, sterile and unhappy marriage for the sake of the children?
That could make the children very unhappy too.

Some parents manage to separate amicably and continue to have separate loving relationships with their children.

It's the media which ran with these lurid stories which must have caused embarrassment to both boys.

Callistemon21 It's the media which ran with these lurid stories which must have caused embarrassment to both boys.

Yes.

I agree and believe media "stories" are point to his book.

Quite easy, I'd think, for the King and his wife to apologise.

Charles told Dimbebly during the interview that he was "faithful and honorable" to Diana during their marriage "until it became irretrievably broken down, us both having tried."

Is the main point and I believe that.
As was, I believe, Diana despite lurid stories in the press.

Is it wrong after separating?
Is it considered to be an affair if a couple is separated and not actually divorced?

I'm not saying anything that suggests I know what you think VS. I merely quoted from your own post and commented on it.

VioletSky

Germanshepherdsmum

It may not be ‘right’ VS but human beings are fallible. Life isn’t perfect and nor are the people who live it.

Of course they aren't but that's where accountability comes in isn't it

How exactly does accountability work? Both Charles and Diana publicly admitted adultery. What else would you want?

Callistemon21

Norah

Callistemon21

I disagree

I believe parents are to raise their child without affairs, or write books/give interviews about their embarrassing affairs. Books that are made public, not just "according to Harry" or the "Spare" readership.

According to that logic, the parents wronged both William and Harry then, not just Harry?

Charles told Dimbebly during the interview that he was "faithful and honorable" to Diana during their marriage "until it became irretrievably broken down, us both having tried."
Diana had many affairs after the marriage broke down.

So do you think it's better for two parents to stay together in a loveless, sterile and unhappy marriage for the sake of the children?
That could make the children very unhappy too.

Some parents manage to separate amicably and continue to have separate loving relationships with their children.

It's the media which ran with these lurid stories which must have caused embarrassment to both boys.

Callistemon21 It's the media which ran with these lurid stories which must have caused embarrassment to both boys.

Yes.

I agree and believe media "stories" are point to his book.

Quite easy, I'd think, for the King and his wife to apologise.

Charles told Dimbebly during the interview that he was "faithful and honorable" to Diana during their marriage "until it became irretrievably broken down, us both having tried."

Is the main point and I believe that.
As was, I believe, Diana despite lurid stories in the press.

Is it wrong after separating?
Is it considered to be an affair if a couple is separated and not actually divorced?

Religious beliefs.

I'd say we disagree. I'll debate no further as my faith matters to me as I'm sure yours does to you.

Me? Not my circus GSM

What does Harry need?

If you watch the interviews, he says

Smileless2012

I'm not saying anything that suggests I know what you think VS. I merely quoted from your own post and commented on it.

Cool

I wasn't aware that posters had to serve an apprenticeship before they were allowed to join in a discussion and post VioletSky!

You say And whether or not I can empathise and say, did his family stand back and allow certain things to harm him? Well yes I think they have. Can you empathise with his family for the harm that he's done to them too? Monica has very neatly illustrated how one member of a family has a completely different memory of one particular event and was upset by what they perceived as an injustice. No one else remembered it but their false memory was nursed and carried forward for years. It isn't unreasonable to question why, when there's a large multi generational family, why should one single member of that family be believed when they make random unsubstantiated and uncorroborated allegations, especially when they've already been caught out as a liar? Isn't it feasible to think that that single family member is simply a malcontentious spiteful and damaged individual who has failed at so many things in their life and is now seeking to shift the blame for that onto others? Reconciliation with someone of this type would be inconceivable. Their damage is too great.

M0nica: I'm not sure why you addressed me? Nothing I wrote to your I am sure from your experience you will agree that each side has to meet each other on an equal basis and each be prepared to accept misbehaviour and misunderstandings on both sides

I said: "I have no experience. I doubt each side is equal - somebody has been wronged and somebody needs to offer a real apology. Harry's parents wronged him terribly, his mother has passed, his father could choose to offer an apology. To me that seems crux to 'Spare'. "

--- Affairs corroborated by Harry's parents - I contend his father could apologise for his (Charles) actions. It's fairly clear, to me, that Charles, his wife, and news sources have wronged Harry in many regards.

Why would an honest apology be impossible to deliver? Harry says, I believe, that he wants an apology.