Interesting watch

That's understandable Otter

I miss those years with tiny babies, exhausting as they were

What makes you think I'm not enjoying this discussion VS or am unable to detach from my personal situation? I've mentioned my experience and you have mentioned yours.

If I wasn't enjoying the thread, I wouldn't be taking part.

You must have your hands full Otter and it's hard to know how to respond when out of the blue the person who estranged you gets in touch .

Glad to hear that Smileless

So have you come across all the speakers before? Which part of the discussion interested you?

VioletSky

These are adult relationships Smileless children estranging parents is only one aspect. There are many kinds of estrangement.

Your personal situation is your own but I think it is important for everyone remain open minded to different situations and issues that surround estrangement.

Statements such as "This does not relate to mine or many other situations" slam doors that may lead to reconciliation for some families and put road blocks in front of open discussion

You say that everyone should be open minded to different situations, but then take issue with Smileless reporting the truth of her experience. How is that fair?

Maybe it's a case of everyone should be open minded but some can be less open minded than others eddiecat.

Which part of the discussion interested you eddiecat?

You appear to be the only one referring to the discussion VS, everyone else is referring to comments made by other posters.

Smilesless2012, I often wonder how and why you put your head above the parapet in these discussions on estrangement. I find it hard to accept that you’re sorry smiles isn’t enjoying this discussion VioletSky. My impression is of an endless disagreement between you about estrangement.
My belief is that estrangement rarely comes without previous conflict between the people involved. Often times difficult childhood experiences, attachment issues underpin the estrangement. I don’t accept though, that the adult children don’t share responsibility for all estrangements. There are obvious situations when that caveat doesn’t stand

Well so do I Iam but seriously, it's because I like to see a balanced discussion where all experiences are treated with respect and none are responded too with disdain.

There is a link to the discussion in the OP

I thought it was interesting

Let me know when you have seen it and will gladly discuss

Will do, but quite happy to simply respond to others comments for now.

OK, enjoy the rest of your evening

Otter that was so difficult for you. Focus on your baby and enjoy

Estrangements happen for a variety of reasons, there's no one size fits all.

Sometimes it can be due to the poor behaviour of EPs, past or current, and sometimes it can be down to the poor behaviour of the ACs.

Everyone has their own experiences, and every single one will be different.

We all have our own recollections of childhood, good, bad or indifferent. Between siblings, recollections can vary.

Some, as adults, after a poor childhood, choose to estrange. Others choose to put it behind them and move on.

My two stepsons are estranged now from DH (and me) - one because we won't find his alcohol/gambling addictions, and one because "he doesn't want the burden of elderly parents". I was a bit bemused by the "burden idea" as neither of us have ever asked for a thing...🤔. We have helped them far more, over the last 20 years,

But, fair enough I suppose - but as neither DH or I are willing to do the "eggshell walk" with them, and pander or plead, they will just have to get on with it.🙄

We've got a full life anyway, and although I think that one day, his sons will regret their behaviour, as DH is in poor health, that will be their problem.

However, what I won't accept is that this is in anyway down to us. It's not.

Telling EPs that they must know, hold responsibility for and understand the reasons and justification for their estrangement is unfair and a bit arrogant. Outsiders cannot possibly know.😗

Sometimes the EPs are at fault, sometimes the ACs are, sometimes in in-laws are, and sometimes all sides have handled things badly.

There is also the point that some estrangements are caused by mental health issues. No one's fault - just the way it is.

Great post DiamondLily. Not only is it unfair and a bit arrogant to say EP's must know so be responsible for their estrangements, it also closes down what can be an informative discussion.

The estrangement forum here on GN provides an opportunity for EP's and EAC to share their experiences with one another, which may help to provide a better understanding of the other's perspective. That's not going to happen if some feel that their open and honest account is being invalidated.

No, I don't think it's fair to basically undermine the experiences of others.

Estrangements, whatever the reasons, brings pain/stress with it. No one is immune from it. To then feel disbelieved adds to the fray.

I don't really get it why people can't just understand, that, regardless of personal experiences, books, pods, stats, every situation is different, and just discuss it in that frame of mind.🙂

I don't understand it either DiamondLily or why if there is disbelief it's more often than not directed at EP's.

Yes it does. Perhaps it's a generational thing. I don't really know.

And, I expect personal experiences play into personal opinions.

But, a general discussion is better than casting aspersions. We can all only read what's posted, unless we know those people on a personal level.

Still, that's forums I guess.😉

Thanks DiamondLily for your post. I’m woman in my 70’s, I’ve personal and professional experience and so far, never met anyone who wasn’t deeply hurt by estrangement. Although childhood trauma is often present, Mental health issues, addictions of various kinds and personality problems often contribute.

The posted discussion was unbiased and ome of the representatives is someone estranged parents here have often spoken about

Some of the comments on this thread will be based on what was said in the video discussion not the comments made here, so it may help people not to take things personally and participate clearly... if they watch it

Happy to discuss once people have watched

Iam64

Thanks DiamondLily for your post. I’m woman in my 70’s, I’ve personal and professional experience and so far, never met anyone who wasn’t deeply hurt by estrangement. Although childhood trauma is often present, Mental health issues, addictions of various kinds and personality problems often contribute.

Yes, estrangement is something that causes pain. It doesn't cause me on a personal level, pain that DH's ACs appear to have estranged him and me (for different "guessed at" reasons), but it causes me pain knowing how it has hurt my DH.

Especially when they freely acknowledge he was a lovely Dad.🙄

It doesn't cause me pain, on a personal level, that my ex husband estranged from our kids, for 10 years, they accepted him back, (at his behest, but with no explanation), . and now he's cut them off again, but it causes me pain with what he is doing to our adult children.

I'm tired of hearing that the estranged don't listen - the gutless wonders, in my family. haven't got the courage to say what their problem actually is, so exactly why, who, where and what does the listening involve?

I don't know. 🙄

I find it hard to believe people who name call during these types of discussions can honestly claim to not see how there is legit friction in a familial relationship.

‘Gutless wonders’… yes. Sounds totally blameless…

The fact is if multiple people walk away from an individual, self-reflection by the common denominator seems necessary. No party in such a situation is totally without some fault, but I couldn’t have multiple children grow up to treat me with disdain or indifference and not do some soul searching. Now a grandmother myself, I’ve lived long enough know coincidence is so much more rare than people like to think.

But, it comforts some to always point fingers outwardly. It’s just not who I am and I am thankful for that. I like to learn from my failings. I also learn from the failings of others. No one is above reproach. Anyone who thinks they are always 100% right in every conflict will surely yield the distance from family their stance calls for.

We do feel the pain of those we love DiamondLily.

Seeing how his AC are hurting your husband hurts you too, as does knowing what your ex is doing to your children.

Why on earth would anyone do that? Estrange, reconcile and then estrange again. Painful enough the first time and must be even worse when it happens again.

I'm tired of hearing that too. Some have and will listen, some haven't and never will.

To be honest I find name calling unproductive.

It shows a lack of ability to think clearly and rationally about another person's behaviour, what caused it and how to understand or empathise with it.

It was quite common to do this with children in the past. To either denounce the child as being their behaviour "selfish brats" being one example. Or to simply punish the child physically which we know now to be completely counter intuitive.

The focus in more recent years has grown towards understanding a child's behaviour rather than just denouncing them as "naughty" or "dificult" or "selfish" and labelling the child in a negative way with no positive outcome, especially to the child. No introspection and absolutely no thought about what the child has struggled with themselves. All behaviour has a reason. A good parent should be looking for that reason,even if finding that reason can't change the outcome.

So why would we do that with adults? Especially our own children.

I feel the same way from the other perspective. What would I accomplish by simply calling my mother names? Instead I seek to understand her behaviour. Yes she is often envious but why? What happened in her life to make her unhappy with what she has and unable to value it? What good would labelling her do with no understanding of how she came to be this way?

Understanding and empathy gives me the best chance of reconsiliation, at least from my own side. If I could help my mother to a place where she was able to reflect and be accountable. Unfortunately she could not, even after kind, calm and patient discussion and offers of joint counselling. That door only closed with time and healing because the hope was harming me but could she still demonstrate positive qualities that would allow me to open that door? Yes, yes she could. Can the relationship be as close as a mother and daughter ideally would be? No because she left it too long and I've moved too fr through the grieving process.

It's so important to know you have done everything you can, that you have been accountable and acted out of love and understanding first. Otherwise you can never move on from your own situation and will endlessly be stuck in a loop of blame and anger.