Interesting watch

I agree VS it is necessary to do all you can to act out of love and understanding and to be accountable...how does one proceed from this point when you have done all this and it achieves nothing?

Some of the comments on this thread will be based on what was said in the video discussion not the comments made here, so it may help people not to take things personally and participate clearly... if they watch it

I'm not sure people are taking things personally per se from the comments I have read ...more that the phraseology in some comments made ( which yes, may be related to the gideo) suggests closed views and they are trying to open up a recognition of all the differences and nuances of Estrangement situations and away from some of the apparently closed comments

You grieve in the time you need and move on

Perhaps it inspires you to make other relationships healthier in your families and friendship circles

Perhaps it inspires you to help others to do the same who still have a chance to reconcile and have a healthy relationship going forward.

Perhaps it inspires you to stand against the harm caused by others to relationships they are responding emotionally to rather than standing back and helping others find solutions.

Perhaps it inspires a whole career

Where ever it takes you as long as it takes you to a place of healing and understanding.

The grief is similar to a loved one losing their life. People need to understand why that happened, what could have been done differently and if it could have been prevented.

Those who don't move through that grieving process and can't let go of their anger never really move on.

While others move on and heal.

Still others move on and heal but continue to work towards preventing such deaths in future.

Still others heal but work to support those like themselves suffering through grief.

Still others are inspired to a career in preventing and treating the causes of death or professionally supporting the grieving.

It's personal to people themselves

I was meaning people who are still alive.

That was the top half Bridie

The explanation I got was a very reasoned one. My daughter wanted to cut my extended family from her life. To do that without including me would have put me in the position of having to choose between a continuing relationship with her - or cutting off my whole family. She made the decision for me.

I have since discovered (from a third party) the reason why she wanted to distance herself from my family and it was because she had done something that she knew to be very wrong, and that would have repercussions if it was discovered. Now that I know what her secret was I can wholly understand her actions.

I said at the time that our estrangement was nothing to do with her relationship with me, and that is still correct.

You move on Bridie not easy I know but when you've done all that you can, there's nothing more you can do.

You know if you've acted out of love, shown understanding and been accountable where you needed to be and maybe one day they'll be able to see that too.

It's important and beneficial to recognise the differences and nuances of Estrangement situations isn't it Madgran and a missed opportunity especially when both EP's and EAC are taking part in the same discussion, not to do so.
of Estrangement

I can imagine that knowing that your daughter's estrangement of you and your extended family had nothing to do with your relationship, must be of some comfort grannyactivist as is now knowing the reason she took that decision, but no less painful.

Ooops, the 'of Estrangement' shouldn't be there.

It's easy to sit down and play the blame game. I did it and it didn't make me feel any better.

Everyone is human and makes mistakes. Our estrangement started when I had my first DC and emotions are running hight on all ends but what ruined our relationship were the expections being mismatched.
I was really poorly but my health wasn't really worried about. I as the new mom wasn't considered.
Everyone wanted the baby.

I could type about it all day but what it came to is that:
She messed up.
We could of handled it better, we didn't, we were late teens. Postpartum depression etc..
We went years without seeing them.
They realised it wasn't worth arguing.
Same.
We all apologised.

14+ years and we are in the best place.

I'm not saying it's the same in every situation but accepting some blame helped, on both sides.

It's lovely to read about a happy ending PoppyBlue.

Really pleased for you all PoppyBlue...Nice to know there can be a happy ending.

I think it is very unfair to take one phrase and make a judgement on DiamondLily or anyone else for that matter. The term "gutless wonders" is basically an expression of the understandable anger that DiamondLily feels regarding the treatment of her DH whom she loves. In the context she uses it she is referring to their experience of either lack of explanation or possibly to her earlier reference to her step sons comments re not wanting the burden of old people and her other step sons alcohol and gambling issues not being funded by his father.

To label her "name calling" as a guide on the whole approach to the sorry situation in which her family finds itself seems rather generalised and unfair! It is so patently obvious that the nuances of their sad situation is so much more than a phrase as an expression of anger on a thread discussing Estrangement and in my view does not suggest a lack of taking responsibility atall.

Generalised judgements don't help.

I was talking about my circumstances. And, I stand by what I said.

No, I'm not taking responsibility for the tantrums and sulks of others, nor will I.

Other people's circumstances are different.🙂

As this is a discussion about the causes of estrangement all views are valid and sharing our personal situation on this thread may not be a good idea if we do not actually want ur discussed

Agreement is not sought or necessary

*it

well when someone is criticised as 'name calling' for describing a family member as a gutless wonder it would seem that all views are not valid.

Discussing another's personal situation is one thing, criticising the language they choose to do so is another.

VioletSky

As this is a discussion about the causes of estrangement all views are valid and sharing our personal situation on this thread may not be a good idea if we do not actually want ur discussed

Agreement is not sought or necessary

Yes all views are valid including stating ones own situation and accepting that it may be discussed. There is a difference though between being discussed and making generalised judgements because of one particular phrase used, about the causes etc of a person's situation.

No agreement isn't sought or needed but comment when one disagrees or thinks something is unfair/unreasonable or whatever is valid and a normal part of discussion. It's not personal, its discussion, comment and debate.

I think we have both seen over a long period of time, judgements made about the causes of someone's estrangement on various threads Violet. Certainly you have in the past quite understandably described and condemned some of the generalised judgements and statements about your own personal Estrangement situation. I have also, as have others, condemned judgemental statements/assumptions made on one person's situation based on facts/common factors about estrangement, without at least some recognition of the possible nuances, the individual influences, the historical causes etc on many threads.

I honestly dont know why these threads always seem to go this way other than what I said in, I think, my first post!

I think you are missing the point

Name calling absolutely is a cause of estrangement as is labelling a child or another adult instead of understanding the behaviour.. as I explained

People may not agree with that but it has been brought to discussion and that is my honest thoughts about it

VioletSky

I think you are missing the point

Name calling absolutely is a cause of estrangement as is labelling a child or another adult instead of understanding the behaviour.. as I explained

People may not agree with that but it has been brought to discussion and that is my honest thoughts about it

No I'm not missing the point. Yes name calling can be a cause of Estrangement, we know that. So can many other things.

But one phrase not said to the AC directly ( noone can assume it ever has been said or that name calling was a part of that estrangement) but expressing obvious anger on an Estrangement thread discussion, being used to make a judgement about what happened in that persons Estrangement is unhelpfully judgemental, based on tenuous assumptions.

At the very least when other information has been given about a person's estrangement then if one really wants to make a judgement, they deserve to have those nuances factored in. In your own situation there are so many layers aren't there! Clearly there are in others situations as well and one phrase used in one thread, ignoring other information, really doesn't recognise the layers.

Anyway, this must be getting boring for everyone.

I don't agree with that either, name calling someone where they can't hear may be cathartic but still is not productive and won't help healing

But this is a discussion, views will differ and we don't have to agree, so up to you if you want to move on from it madgran, I'm not bored by it

Here is an interesting article about what the impact of name calling or witnessing name calling is in different scenarios

www.verywellfamily.com/consequences-of-name-calling-460613

I'm not bored by it either but us bouncing back and forth is probably somewhat boring for others.

Yup, may be cathartic and not help healing. But still not a singular source to make judgements about the cause of the Estrangement whilst ignoring other nuanced layers of information.
My comments are about the assumptions apparently being made, not about the wider causes of Estrangement. Picking out one use of phraseology to make judgements isn't helpful really in such a discussion. Actually I dont think it was you who originally did, my original comment on this related to someone elses post.

Nope ofcourse we don't have to agree.

VioletSky

Here is an interesting article about what the impact of name calling or witnessing name calling is in different scenarios

www.verywellfamily.com/consequences-of-name-calling-460613

Yup interesting. I have seen that one before. Not a source that assists with making a judgement on one posters situation because they used a phrase in their post though.

Of course, do feel free to PM me instead

But the subject of name calling came up and I have honestly given my thoughts on that subject which you are welcome to revisit