How to tell someone life is too short ?

did you expect to move in to your son and his wife's home ?

He was uninjured not injured! Blooming phone!

@eddiecat78
Yes you are right and I do need to stop mentioning the situation. Actually I’ve had some good advice on how to do this already , so I’ll put it into practice. I really don’t know what his home life is like currently. I can’t image . All I know is that he’s always angry , he’s never happy but he still comes to see me . It’s very strange. A year ago I would never have predicted anything like this going wrong in my life - both him and his wife were very supportive and we were close . It’s heartbreaking isn’t it xx

@Norah no my partner was his step dad and yes I’ve been around talk people but not really experienced anyone the size of my son being overtly abusive towards me . When we got on well and he gave me a cwtch that was lovely- very conforting and loving . I don’t like this new version where he’s standing over me shouting abuse . That is not conforting .

perhaps he's only angry when he sees you, not when he is at home.
how can you know that he is always angry.
anyway, as others have said, i think your best bet is just to not get enmeshed in all this.
just be grateful that he comes to see you, and do not say anything provocative.
just be understated, say little, be grateful, be polite.
don't try and sort out whatever has happened in the past.
don't allude to it.
side-step it.

@eddiecat78 re your second post . So I believe there are situations where life is too short would be apt . Just a question then - if you are estranged from your DiL how does this impact your relationship with your son ? I’m just curious that’s all . Do you just see him on his own ?

@wellbeck well maybe that’s the case . Perhaps he’s a ray of sunshine at home and reserves all his anger for me , the person who has been there for him for 30 years . He’s also angry on the phone in a Saturday when I speak to him to make arrangements, so he’s at home then . Given the fact that he’s treated my dad so badly, I will find it impossible to be grateful that he’s coming to see me . He comes to my dad’s house where I’m staying at the moment and he has made life very difficult for everyone. My dad’s 83 and in poor health. And yes , I was expecting to move in with my son and his wife given they had already offered . They have a 6 bedroom house , with a seperate loft space which my father was going to pay to get converted. That’s on top of the funds my parents gave them to buy this house in the first place . Do you think it would be unreasonable then for me to expect to keep their promise ?

We had about 5 years of very little contact with DS and none with her or the children. In the end her controlling behaviour caused the marriage to break down completely. He now has a lovely partner who likes us and they are actually all visiting us at the moment.

I think some men find it hard to cope when women show strong emotions. They get some sort of adrenalin rush and this manifests itself as anger - fight rather than flight. My husband is normally a very intelligent, calm person but there have been times in the past when I've had an emotional crisis and his reaction has been shouty and defensive "What do you expect me to do about it?" Not what a girl wants when she's feeling needy!

Maybe your son is currently experiencing a bit of this with the two ladies he is closest to as they negotiate intense emotional phases in their lives?

This is the first thread from the OP that I have read and feel unable to put in any opinion of the mess this seems to be,
But….as Nell8 has said the advice from the health services to new parents these days seems to be to have 2 weeks on their own with the baby to bond.
Luckily in our family we’ve only got one that believes everything she is told, the others all wanted as much help as was offered. (We are an extensive family). The couple who wanted privacy were given it with no problems.

Ladysuisei

@madgran hi - well I didn’t mean “ crap “ as in crap . In fact I thought this question would turn out to be slightly more lighthearted than it actually has been .
Having said that I’d NEVER refer to this whole time as crap . I’m still practicing my calm approach and largely, it’s working, I’m getting the impression that life’s too short isn’t a good thing to say anyway. I was talking about this issue with the lady from Mind ( someone has picked up on this and yes she’s a friend because I used to volunteer there when I was slightly less unwell ) and she actually said to me “ oh no life’s too short can’t you tell him this “ ! Hence me posing the question for opinions from those who are estranged.
It seems like this is perceived as quite a sensitive thing to say under these circumstances. So from a person not in this situation it seems like a reasonable appraisal , but not if you are in the predicament. That’s interesting. I certainly didn’t view it as something that might minimise my son’s difficulties at the moment. Good job I’ve asked - actually I don’t think my son’s views are crap at all but I do think he is taking it too far . If someone is unhappy about an incident which happened in the past there’s absolutely no way to change this . The only remedy lies in an apology and changed behaviour. Now if an apology isn’t “ good enough” what would you suggest might be . Other than time ? Sadly, everyone seems to focus solely on the fact that I said something which has upset my son but overlooked the plethora of ways he’s deliberately hurting me by way of payback . I find myself constantly trying out your technique of asking if I can do anything to help the situation, being told the situation hasn’t changed then I am remaining calm whilst he hurls abuse . Admittedly less abuse than a few weeks ago . He knew he’d get a reaction by criticising me over my partner’s ashes . He realises I’m devastated by this loss and he also knows that emotionally I’m not ready to deal with them quite just yet . It’s a form of denial. If I ignore the ashes I ignore the death . I know my partner would want me mentally well and settled in a safe home before I deal with this . He spent over 20 years looking after my wellbeing and I know where his priorities lie.
Just a question- do you ever think life’s too short would be useful or is the question not worth it ?

Hi *Ladysue I think that possibly if things can calm down and conversations become more mutual rather than him telling you everything you have done wrong, then possibly *Life's too short" might be something you can both agree on.

But at the moment in all the anger it will not be heard in the way that you mean it

You can give an apology honestly meant. Unfortunately someone does not have to take an apology if they dont want to. That might be because they dont believe it is genuine. It might be because they dont want a solution. It might be because they are too angry. Too overloaded with other things in their life....who knows!

It is partly because an apology is apparently not a solution according to your son, that I am suggesting the calm non engaged strategy. It's a looking to the long term gains way of hopefully retaining a relationship; its not an instant solution where everything is ok again. But it might lead to a point where you can all find resolution. I hope you do

@eddiecat I’m happy things have worked out for you . I can only hope …….

My dad’s 83 and in poor health. And yes , I was expecting to move in with my son and his wife given they had already offered . They have a 6 bedroom house , with a seperate loft space which my father was going to pay to get converted. That’s on top of the funds my parents gave them to buy this house in the first place . Do you think it would be unreasonable then for me to expect to keep their promise

Yes quite unreasonable to expect to move in on Son and Dil now.

@madgran well I can’t see how life will ever resolve itself if an apology is not accepted. This is what worries me . I’ve spoken with so many people about what’s caused this and their opinion is that my son should be adult enough now to start letting it go .
His wife is apparently “ traumatised “ by the incident. I can’t confirm or deny this because in the grand scheme of my life , I have experienced many things which have traumatised me but I have recovered from them . It is my belief that she might be choosing to say she is traumatised as a way to justify not seeing me . At the time of this bad conversation, emotions were running very high for all of us . I felt trauma too . The way I think about life is that once things are resolved then gradually life returns to normal. So , the bad conversation at the time she was having a threatened miscarriage was resolved by the fact that wonderfully the baby turned out to be healthy , survived and is due in March . To me , this part of the incident would override any words which were said causing hurt if that makes sense . I cannot understand how my DIL is traumatised considering the fact that everything turned out to be fine . Am I missing something here ? I would be so grateful for a healthy baby that I would have long forgotten a poor conversation. This would be so trivial when compared to the wonderful outcome . Maybe things will change when the child is here , who knows but I feel it’s unreasonable to play on the fact you were once traumatised by something which has turned out to be wonderful. I would be thanking God for my baby and that’s it . So this lengthy explanation possibly means they are simply choosing not to accept my apology. In any case , since August we all had some good times and this conversation only reared it’s ugly head around a month ago - it’s an excuse not a reason.

I really don’t like being on the receiving end of cruelty and verbal abuse but for personal family reasons I’ve promised my dad we will give my son a proper chance to prove whether or not he carries through his threat to not allow me access to my grandson . If this turns out to be the case then my dad will be making some decisions and I will stop contact . I won’t allow my son to treat me like dirt indefinitely. xx

@Norah - why do you say this when the situation is manufactured by my son ! Not that I am saying I’d want to mind you .
Nice of them to accept the family money then shift the goalposts. Do you agree with this ? Or if it were you , would you expect to be reimbursed based on a broken promise?

@Norah you need to bear in mind the reason for this rift changes from week to week which is why I’ve said manufactured by my son .

He was happy to take the £££ . If that £££ was from a commercial organisation then if he did not fulfill his obligations then he’d be expected to pay it back . In life you can’t have it all ways . Can you ?

"I cannot understand how my DIL is traumatised considering the fact that everything turned out to be fine ."

This says everything.

Are you capable of empathy?

* OP: Where have I said I don’t approve of his wife - I love her dearly. *

I have read a thread from you where you said “there is a special place in hell for her” when referring to your DIL….

Im sorry, but after reading several of your threads, I can begin to see why they are going no contact with you

Ladysuisei

@madgran well I can’t see how life will ever resolve itself if an apology is not accepted. This is what worries me . I’ve spoken with so many people about what’s caused this and their opinion is that my son should be adult enough now to start letting it go .
His wife is apparently “ traumatised “ by the incident. I can’t confirm or deny this because in the grand scheme of my life , I have experienced many things which have traumatised me but I have recovered from them . It is my belief that she might be choosing to say she is traumatised as a way to justify not seeing me . At the time of this bad conversation, emotions were running very high for all of us . I felt trauma too . The way I think about life is that once things are resolved then gradually life returns to normal. So , the bad conversation at the time she was having a threatened miscarriage was resolved by the fact that wonderfully the baby turned out to be healthy , survived and is due in March . To me , this part of the incident would override any words which were said causing hurt if that makes sense . I cannot understand how my DIL is traumatised considering the fact that everything turned out to be fine . Am I missing something here ? I would be so grateful for a healthy baby that I would have long forgotten a poor conversation. This would be so trivial when compared to the wonderful outcome . Maybe things will change when the child is here , who knows but I feel it’s unreasonable to play on the fact you were once traumatised by something which has turned out to be wonderful. I would be thanking God for my baby and that’s it . So this lengthy explanation possibly means they are simply choosing not to accept my apology. In any case , since August we all had some good times and this conversation only reared it’s ugly head around a month ago - it’s an excuse not a reason.

I really don’t like being on the receiving end of cruelty and verbal abuse but for personal family reasons I’ve promised my dad we will give my son a proper chance to prove whether or not he carries through his threat to not allow me access to my grandson . If this turns out to be the case then my dad will be making some decisions and I will stop contact . I won’t allow my son to treat me like dirt indefinitely. xx

So while it is wonderful the pregnancy was able to continue but no - the trauma of fearing one would lose it and perhaps of whatever she felt your attitude and actions were at the time are not simply erased because it worked out well. That simply isn’t the way trauma and feelings work - at least not for many people. She’s likely still anxious for baby’s safety and may even be more cautious once baby is here - she’s felt what it felt
Like to think she was losing the baby. And in that most hurtful vulnerable scared position - you were the person who attempted to make this your experience , your loss, your potential tragedy. This is likely I to take some time to recover from, and while that may not have been your intent it was hurtful - even though the pregnancy was able to continue.

In a somewhat similar situation, my youngest grandchild was born with a heart defect that requires
Urgent open chest surgery as a newborn. It was terrifying for all
Of us but of course none like my daughter and son in law - that was their much loved and wanted baby. Now thank the Lord baby did remarkably well And has thrived . And all
Are incredibly grateful. However
Son in laws sister did much as you did - why wasn’t she called , why hasn’t she been allowed to visit in the neonatal intensive care, - me , me , me. The baby surviving the surgery didn’t take away the hurt and anger this caused in my daughter and son in law. And it simply has taken much time to forgive - even still two years later their relationship, while better is still tainted by the memory of how she behaved. This may be a case of simply needing time to heal from those wounds. So stop pouring salt in them now. Hopefully will time those hurts will heal, but no baby turning out fine doesn’t simply erase the hurt

Ladysuisei
You can’t.

Grannieinatwist

* OP: Where have I said I don’t approve of his wife - I love her dearly. *

I have read a thread from you where you said “there is a special place in hell for her” when referring to your DIL….

Im sorry, but after reading several of your threads, I can begin to see why they are going no contact with you

Excuse me . I have NEVER written anything stating there’s a special place in hell for my DIL . Please find this and post it as proof. Thus is certainly not my wording . I’m shocked and outraged as well as deeply offended that you should write such a thing .

Hithere

"I cannot understand how my DIL is traumatised considering the fact that everything turned out to be fine ."

This says everything.

Are you capable of empathy?

Yes of course. I had a high risk pregnancy and both myself and my son almost died during labour . There were severe complications.
My mother at the time talked to me about my feelings of trauma and eventually I learned to appreciate the fact that yes , things almost went wrong in the worst way but I must not let it cloud the rest of my life . Goodness , if we all wrote an extensive explanation about every single sentence whilst posting on here we’d be going for hours .
All I pointed out is that as far as the threatened miscarriage went everything tuned out fine . That is a statement of fact . There has been no further abnormalities which indicate any issues or problems within the pregnancy. That is also a statement fact ( yes I do have updates from my DIL’s mother ) . I have now provided you with a full factual explanation of this baby’s gestation. Within this family I am the only person to have suffered complications whilst in labour - I thought it was best not to cause further anxiety by bringing that up . Sometimes you have to deal with the facts as well as the emotional side of life . Otherwise we’d all be nervous wrecks .

Grannieinatwist

* OP: Where have I said I don’t approve of his wife - I love her dearly. *

I have read a thread from you where you said “there is a special place in hell for her” when referring to your DIL….

Im sorry, but after reading several of your threads, I can begin to see why they are going no contact with you

I’ve just noticed the last paragraph- well thank you very much . You wish estrangement upon any human being - you are heinous and wicked

Grannieinatwist

* OP: Where have I said I don’t approve of his wife - I love her dearly. *

I have read a thread from you where you said “there is a special place in hell for her” when referring to your DIL….

Im sorry, but after reading several of your threads, I can begin to see why they are going no contact with you

After doing a search from my day 1 on this site up until this minute , NO posts exist with the word HELL in them . You should be ashamed of yourself for writing this vitriolic post . I knew that would be the case , but decided to check based on the fact you’ve announced this wording with such authority. So no , you have NOT read a post written by me stating there’s a special place in hell for my DIL . I don’t know how you sleep at night ………..

Ladysuisei it took me 30 seconds to find this, on the 'Friendship, advice, support' thread, posted at Sat 03-Feb-24 12:50:23. The bolding is mine.

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Ladysuisei

@Whiff
I am pleased you are feeling slightly better today .
Yes , my issue is that seemingly the death of my beloved has triggered this rift . It’s so hard to continually monitor your every word when distraught with grief. But they were - monitoring every word I mean . They have a dossier of things I’ve said / done “ wrong not up to scratch “ whatever. They refer to this in conversation and I’ve no idea what they’re referring to which then makes him angry because I “ should “ know etc etc . It’s exhausting. The loss of my partner outweighs the loss of my son too . My partner was wonderful, like yours , and would never have treated me badly.
I won’t ever show my son the door but I’m furious as well as heartbroken about not being allowed to see my grandson. People will think all sorts of me and that’s not right . He will tell lies and I won’t be able to defend myself it’s awful . They might assume I’m physically dangerous or something worse which is unforgivable of my son putting me in this situation. I dislike him intensely whilst loving him at the same time . My DIL belongs in hell for what she’s done to me , but I will forgive her if things change.
I won’t allow my son to use me as his punching bag . His cruelty and disgusting language knows no bounds at the moment. He really cannot blame this on a difficult pregnancy or anything else really. Thank you x
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You have posted so frequently with so many contradictions it's no surprise you don't remember saying this. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and put it down to your emotional turmoil. However I strongly suspect you are so desperate for attention that your story changes depending on who you're talking to, what day of the week it is and whether the breeze is blowing.