Putting myself on the chopping block ...

Wishing you the best in handling a difficult MIL. A few questions--did you have a good relationship with her before having babies? Did you and your husband discuss this intrusion early on & are you both in agreement? Did he speak to her then about the difficulty she was causing? While this impacted you as the new mom, maybe if he took ownership of her intrusion & lack of encouragement with her...as he's her little boy, she may take it better, possibly? I went through a very contentious divorce a long time ago, but something I learned was to measure my words as though they're going to be posted verbatim on FB or the front page. Today, I have a DIL, a new mom to my son's 8 & 10-year-olds. She's trying her very best to love/raise these two. Does she do everything like I might? No, but if I had to raise my own two again, I'd do some things differently.

I wholeheartedly agree with your 10th paragraph mamasperspective. We say time and time again on this forum that communication is key. It doesn't always prevent estrangement as seems to be the case with your m.i.l. but at least you've tried.

I am not naive enough to believe that there aren't any extremely difficult m's.i.l. out there, I had one myself but thankfully we somehow managed to resolve our issues and had many years of a mutually loving and respectful relationship.

I had no contact with my parents in law for about 7 years, but my husband saw them on a weekly basis and our boys continued to see them too.

Who knows why some people behave the way they do, and rather then embracing the relationship their AC develops and enjoying the family they create, or rather than embracing the family they became a welcomed and loved member of, they create this needless unnecessary drama and so much damage.

I'm sorry that you've had to go through this.

All we wanted was for our ES to build his own family and for us to be a part of it as his parents, her p's.i.l. and as GP's to our GC but like you, we've found that life doesn't always give us what we dreamed of, regardless of how much we wanted it .

Is your partner her only child? Are your children her only grandchildren?she may have waited a long time to be a granny, I know this isn't a reason to take over but the excitement of finally having grandchildren may be a reason for her behaviour, also you being an older mum already set in your ways, knowing what you want in your life really needs to be explained kindly by your partner, cutting her out now may not go well later on, if there is other children and grandchildren for her it's not so bad, but then there would be uncles and aunts for your children who may not agree with your decision,it would be sad

I apologise if there are delays in responses ladies (as mentioned I have 2 young children - one is just a few months old and is breastfed/cluster feeding)

Thank you for being kind in your responses. I was worried that I may be opening myself up to a tirade of abuse with my post but I think it's good to reflect and open up healthy communication and I'm genuinely interested in other peoples perspectives. I will try to answer your questions as best I can.

I was also worried that if MIL learns of this forum at some point she may see this but I no longer care as any hope for reconciliation at this point has completely gone.

Yes I had a good relationship with her before children but, looking back, I took what she said at face value and had no reason to doubt her. Everything was always everyone else's fault and never hers. She'd had issues with 2 previous DILs and her eldest son who didn't have a relationship with her (he's sadly not here anymore). Her adult grandchildren (from her eldest son) will not entertain a relationship with her. My DH's daughter from his first marriage has extremely low contact with her and now she does not see my 2 (my partner and I decided that together after I justified why I thought it was the best decision for our kids). She had 3 sons in total. She would say awful things about FIL behind his back (which upset DH to hear) so I've got no doubt she says awful things about me now.

It may sound controversial to some but my view is that, if someone can act the way she has acted and treat others in such a way (whilst also displaying a victim mentality and using emotional manipulation) then a person like that is not healthy to have around my children, especially as they grow and are impressionable. As their mother, it's my job to protect them from such people and teach them what not to accept in their own lives (my children are amazing, they should never be made to feel less than their worth)

From LO being born she would take my baby from me and keep hold of her for hours and refuse to hand her back - for a new mum with post birth hormones all over the place this causes so much stress and anxiety. In the end my baby used to scream at even hearing MIL's voice and would hysterically cry. I consulted with a child psychologist (friend of a friend) who said baby was likely associating MIL with being taken away from her mummy so it caused a lot of anxiety for baby too. Baby had only known my heartbeat and voice for 9 months so I was her safe space.

While all this was going on I also really missed my own mother who I know would have helped around the house and been cooking up a storm in my kitchen to make things easier for me in the couple of weeks immediately after birth. Instead I had someone wanting to visit every day and separate me from my new baby. It was awful.

One incident caused my then 6-7 month old daughter medical issues with pain and discomfort because MIL decided to feed her treats. The doctor said no so I passed this message on (4 times in total) but she still continued to ignore it. Seeing my child in pain (again) was the final straw for me. She was told it would cause my daughter agonising pain yet did what SHE wanted anyway.

Another incident that happened included refusing to hand out newborn back to my partner (she flat out refused, it wasn't in a jokey way) and he was furious afterwards but said nothing at the time. It took a lot to get him to advocate for me as a new mum as I think he knew standing up to his mother wasn't worth the hassle. He raised all issues with her initially but she blamed me and stonewalled me. It's now been a year.

I basically asked that she not discuss certain topics around us (one being associated with the topic of my mothers death and the other, speaking ill of FIL), to not feed my child certain foods and check first before feeding her (there was a medical reason) and hand the baby back when asked. That was all and I thought that was quite reasonable.

My second pregnancy was so stressful because of the situation with her and consequently I had medical support throughout and therapy. My therapist said MIL sounded like a textbook covert narcissist. As a result of the stress my baby stopped growing and there was excess fluid so I had to be induced early to try to avoid the chance of still birth. In the end, although early, she was born safe and well.

The midwife checked in on my mental health on one visit following birth and commented to DH that his mother sounded narcissistic and that's when we made the decision that our children would be no contact the same as me.

I asked DH if he would ever tolerate our daughters MILs treating them the way his mother had treated me and he said no.

I know MIL would comment that my kids are missing out but things have been better without her around and she has nothing positive to bring to the table or to our lives so I disagree and think we are better without.

I know MIL would also profess how much she loves her grandchildren yet she would rather lose contact with her grandchildren than apologise, accept some accountability for the way she's handled this badly over the last year and just promise to respect some boundaries (mainly for the sake of my child's health). This is what has me baffled. I really feel like her ego is more important to her than her grandkids and the rest is just bravado.

Maybe yet another controversial view but I don't think being 'family' or having a title such as grandparent gives anyone a free pass to be toxic. If people are kind and respectful with me, I will be the same regardless of who they are.

I hope that answers most comments and I'm happy to hear different points of view, even if they don't align with my views.

What a sorry mess your mil is in. She must feel very alone it sounds as if she doesn’t understand boundaries. If she is a narcissist they don’t alter. What on earth did she feed your child to cause such pain? Were you not present to stop it. My mother and mil doted on mine and I could trust them. You have family and naturally you wanted a better relationship with mil which is not to be. You came to motherhood late and it’s all the more precious. I know there are mil from hell and dil too. I’ve friends cut off by a dil as they don’t get a look in, it’s quite common. A lot of dil are envious of the bond between mother and son, but that mother raised them to be the son they are. I think looking back, if you think you have your children and a good relationship with them, once they settle down it’s not a given you will be part of their life. I am lucky I had two good ones, not without difficulties and we never fell out or had bad words. The grandparents meant so much to my children. Hope you have other family members who you get on with.

I suppose, Allsorts, it does take 2 people to make and keep relationships.

If one person is repeatedly "hard work" and causes stress and will not try to put things right in any way it is exhausting.

I worked with such a person once and am deeply grateful that she was not part of my family! I have never felt so free as the day I left that job.

I totally agree. It takes two, if you are unable talk and listen to what’s being said what choice have you got. Must protect yourself and children, Mother in law now in a very bleak place because of her actions. Is narcissism a mental illness I don’t know dont see how any medication could sort it.

It is a mental illness Allsorts but like you, I can't see how medication could be of any use.

Narcissists are never in the wrong, it's always someone else's fault, it can never be their's because of their over inflated opinion of themselves.

Trying to explain why you're upset or hurt is a waste of time because they have no empathy. The only person's emotional welfare they're concerned about is their own, and that often takes a precedent over their own children.

I don't know why you thought you'd be subjected to a tirade of abuse Mamasperepective*, or where that abuse would come from.

Not all m's.i.l. are the same, some are good and some are bad just as it is with d's.i.l., our own mothers and even our adult children. All any of us can do is speak from our own experiences.

Every estrangement is different, but, it’s a pity there’s not more two way communication, before it all kicks off. But, in order to do that, both sides have to be willing.

I’ve been lucky with my ACs, in-laws, and (now) adult GCs - I’ve never had a problem. But, it is luck, to a large degree.

I’ve never been a pushy wife, mother, mil, or granny - I’ve got my own stuff going on, usually. But, to be fair, we are a laid back family, none of us like dramas, or analysing each other.

We just say if something is bothering us, and then it’s discussed and done.

Very different to my late husband’s family.🙄

I must admit to being slightly puzzled as to what treat you could give a 6 month old baby. Unless my memory is failing (could be lol), they just have breast or formula milk at that age?

My mother was a nightmare, when I was a child, but she was a lovely Nan and G.Nan to my kids and GCs, so I didn’t estrange her. It was in the best interests of my children not to which is the main consideration.

But, we all need to do what we feel best.🙂

If your mother- in -law refused to see you with your husband and children you, as a family, are quite right to suspend contact.
Nothing else to say.
But that is never the case, is it?

DiamondLily this "treat" was mentioned in an earlier thread... I want to say chocolate but may be making that up. It was, however, something ridiculous for an entirely breast fed baby.

I seem to remember the mother-in-law was doing this out of sight of mum and causing tummy ache.
Not sure what the thread was called.

Oh, I know the odd chocolate button, at a much later age, has always been done, but I’d never heard of doing this with a young baby.

Babies of that age don’t need treats - seems a strange thing to do. 🤔

Just for context ladies, when my partner took baby round she was giving her full (albeit small) bars of chocolate at (only just) 6 months old. I didn't understand why my baby was having severe constipation and anal fissures. I turned up at MILs one day to meet my other half and baby and caught MIL giving baby chocolate so asked her to stop. I then took baby to the doctor for further investigation/make enquiries about medication so she wouldn't be in pain and he said she was not to have chocolate as the chocolate/processed sugar could be exacerbating the issue. I told MIL all this and for a short time she stopped and baby seemed to improve. Took baby back to the doctors a few weeks later as things were bad again and gave MIL all the feedback from the doctor. Baby ended up with fecal impaction and has had to have daily medication. MIL turned up at our home one day (walked straight in, walked straight past partner and I and completely ignored us, didn't even say hi) she sat down next to LO who was playing, got a bag of chocolate buttons out of her bag and said, "She likes these!" .... 4 previous times she had been told baby wasn't allowed chocolate/processed sugars and why. That was the final straw and DH set boundaries with her, she's never spoken to me since.

I just feel reading various boards that sometimes MILs are slated and sometimes on other boards DILs are slated so, as mentioned, a calm and respectful conversation can work wonders. I understand some grandparents want to feed kids a load of treats and perhaps give them an experience that they wouldn't get at home but with potential allergies and (in my case) medical issues, it's always better to check if things are ok with the mother first. I just see that as being responsible and respectful (or have I got unreasonable expectations?) I feel like it's often excused as the MIL has raised kids before and doesn't need instruction but every baby is an individual and is different.

Well, I wouldn’t give a 6 month old chocolate buttons, and don’t know anyone that would.

A baby’s digestive system isn’t up to that. I have reared 2 kids, and been heavily involved with 4 GCs, but I still wouldn’t have done that - I think your mil is slightly odd with this.

Obviously, if allergies are involved, then the things that trigger the allergy shouldn’t be given - that’s just common sense.

Of course, GPs like to treat their GCs, the same as a lot of parents give their kids treats, such as junk food aka McDonalds etc

All fine in moderation, but dependent, obviously, on age, health and allergies.🤷‍♀️

This is more about the stupidity of people, whatever their age.

A child’s health comes first.🙂

Thank you Mamasperspective I did think it was chocolate related.
Anal fissures are horrendous.

Mamasperspective sadly your story is not stand alone... I've heard many such. I myself had an awful experience when my 4 month old lactose intolerant baby with severe reflux was given icecream. Absolutely shouted down and torn to pieces when I protested. He threw up all over the offender then screamed the place down for hours. It was an awful experience.

It can actually be quite hard for new mums to stand up to what feels like "experienced adults". So when they do something so monumentally stupid despite a doctor's advice you absolutely know it is their fault. They, like a child, made a bad choice knowing the potential outcome because they wanted to be in power over you.

That is unforgivable and not a safe person to be around any child.

You as a mum protected your child from a dangerous human and should be applauded.

No, giving chocolate to a child that age is stupid. I don’t quite get why two parents would sit there whilst the mil stormed past with chocolate though…🤔

Very odd behaviour, giving anyone something that would make them ill DL let alone a baby. You'd certainly ensure they were never out of sight with them again wouldn't you.

I wanted to ask what the relationship was like between the partners and their mums before the children came along, please?

Did the sons just do as they were told when they were single?

Well, I wouldn’t have just sat there. But, then I’m a gobby person who would have slung anyone out who tried to harm my kids.🙄

I'd expect my partner to deal with his mother, but then I can only assume the family dynamics were always revolving around a dominant matriarch.

But, then I'm a gobby person who would have slung anyone out who tried to harm my kids I'm with you there DL.

The OP said in a later post that she got on well with her m.i.l. before the children came along MissA which isn't uncommon in these situations.

We got on very well with ES's wife until she became pregnant and went on to have our GC, or at least we thought we did but looking back the signs were there, we just didn't read them.

Families.
Complicated things aren't they?