Estrangement

Madgran77

*Perhaps maing no more comments for reaction, rather self reflecting may be nice? I always advocate for a bit of decent self reflection*

I'm not sure why you have quoted myself question to Luminance here Norah to be honest. Both my queries to Luminance have been related to trying to understand her points and certainly not "for reaction" She has explained her perspective to me in both cases which I appreciate.

Apologies. Misquote.

I do believe estrangement may be emotive, though I know not why. And I do think people would be well served self reflecting.

All this back and forth nit picking is not helping anyone.

Allsorts

All this back and forth nit picking is not helping anyone.

I'm not sure it is nit picking Allsorts. That is certainly not my intention anyway; I can't speak for others

It's not my intention either Madgran. I just don't think that what has actually been written by a poster should be twisted to the extent that they are accused of saying something they haven't said.

Smileless2012

No one knows both sides of the story BlessedArt unless they have an intimate knowledge of all those involved.

The friends of an EAC only have their side, as do the friends of the EP.

We don't know how well pascal knows the friends she referred too but because a d.i.l. being a major player when a son estranges his parents doesn't suit your narrative, whenever it's mentioned you always argue against it, and you accuse me of being selective!!!

Maybe you should self-reflect a bit on some of the posts you make.

What’s your point?

That she is correct in her assertion that all the DILs are to blame?

She doesn’t have intimate knowledge of all those involved, ergo she doesn’t know who is to blame. That’s my point. You paraphrased it and still are finding a reason to rebut. Maybe ask yourself why this particular hill is something you’re planting your flag on because that is a ‘you’ problem, not a ‘me’ problem.

You’re arguing for the sake of arguing now.

Marg75

Interestingly I had a very controlling m.i.l., my DH being an only child. She said on our engagement that 'it won't last', we've been married for 57 years. Because of this I was very careful not to be. Our problems were down to my d.i.l.s childhood and our relationship was doomed from the start. She went out of her way, and was very successful, in convincing our ES that he was the same as her, two very badly treated people. In the case of our ES, nothing if further from the truth.

All I can say is that blaming one’s family issues on another family’s issues are not likely to yield a positive outcome.

Nor bring peace of mind.

She doesn't have intimate knowledge of those involved doesn't she BlessedArt? How do you know how well she knows them, have you asked her?

Well at least you're now acknowledging that the poster was only referring to her estranged friends d's.i.l. and not all d's.i.l. which is a start.

How do I know? Really? There goes that arguing for the sake of arguing again…

Smileless, it’s not my responsibility to explain things every single time you miss my point. It would be one thing if you asked for clarification but you see the letters DIL and rage-respond, so you can have at it. This conversation between us is going nowhere lol

You've said she doesn't have intimate knowledge of those involved so I'll ask again, how do you know? It's a simple enough question and has nothing to do with me missing your point.

I'm simply asking you what evidence you have to substantiate your claim.

What I can say is that, my sister and her daughter are estranged. I know the best of them and the worst of them but could I safely assign a line of fault? No I could not. Both have their own ideas of what has caused this and those ideas are completely opposed. So no, no one can share such anecdotal thoughts about the relationships of friends and acquaintances with any credibility. And trying to do so as an argument in a discussion is at best, rather short sighted and not worthy of a place here.

You enjoy your night, Smileless! I mean that

Luminance

What I can say is that, my sister and her daughter are estranged. I know the best of them and the worst of them but could I safely assign a line of fault? No I could not. Both have their own ideas of what has caused this and those ideas are completely opposed. So no, no one can share such anecdotal thoughts about the relationships of friends and acquaintances with any credibility. And trying to do so as an argument in a discussion is at best, rather short sighted and not worthy of a place here.

You had the energy I lacked. Though, this should be common sense.

BlessedArt as did I but perhaps I gave more credit than was due.

I did BlessedArt, thank you

It is not for you to decide what can and cannot be shared with any credibility Luminance.

You are telling someone you don't know that they can't possibly know the reason for the estrangements of people you don't know either; it's ridiculous.

No, it's actually rather fair for everyone.

I work closely with many people who have estranged from a family mmber. It would be fair of me to say most of those are the child of a parent. Were I to say "ALL estranged children I have personally met estranged for good reason and made the correct decision" I am very sure you would find that I unfair. If you believe it is fair you may agree to that statement and we do not need a back and forth over it.

I think it's fair if you know them Luminance and if you think it's fair then why on earth did you post earlier that ^no one can share such anecdotal thoughts about the relationships of friends and acquaintances with any credibility?

There would have been no need for any back and forth would there if you'd given the same credibility to a poster here as you give to yourself.

Oh my goodness - I thought I’d come back to this thread to see whether it had moved on to anything more helpful for others, but the same people are still arguing after about 3 days 🤦🏻‍♀️🤣 !!! By any chance, did a refusal to let anything go unchallenged, or a need to be proved right and have the last word play a part in any of the estrangements?!

Smileless2012

I think it's fair if you know them Luminance and if you think it's fair then why on earth did you post earlier that ^no one can share such anecdotal thoughts about the relationships of friends and acquaintances with any credibility?

There would have been no need for any back and forth would there if you'd given the same credibility to a poster here as you give to yourself.

My point is Smileless2012 that I do not think that would be fair to say at all. I used it as an example but I would never say that to anyone as an argument to make a point because I was not witness to what happened behind closed doors. I think that would be cruel to estranged parents given where we are. You do not think that would be cruel and I accept you feel that way and wouldn't argue against someone who said that. However I must in the interest of fairness

Didn't have anything to do with our estrangement stillawipp.

We'll just have to agree to disagree Luminance; you don't think it's fair and I do.

stillawipp By any chance, did a refusal to let anything go unchallenged, or a need to be proved right and have the last word play a part in any of the estrangements?!

Of course - always correct parents still assume their opinions and daft advice matter to their adults children. AC don't care to daft opinions.

For unknown reasons some parents care and push to estrange.

Do you have any specific examples Norah?

Smileless2012

Do you have any specific examples Norah?

If you're asking "do you know pushy parents who must give advice and opinions?" -- yes I do. Do they wonder to their AC estrangements? I suspect so - no proof because they don't admit to estrangement.

Naturally estranged don't have to admit, not my business.

Thanks Norah.