Estrangement

Coercive control between a couple, does most certainly exist, as I know from experience.🙄

It’s insidious, it’s slow growing, it gradually takes over everything, and it’s mentally harmful to all who are affected by it. According to figures, it’s most common between those in a relationship.

That’s why it was made a criminal offence in 2015. 🤷‍♀️

I don’t know why some seem to find it impossible to believe that a DIL/SIL can behave like this. 🙄

www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/controlling-or-coercive-behaviour-intimate-or-family-relationship

Interestingly I had a very controlling m.i.l., my DH being an only child. She said on our engagement that 'it won't last', we've been married for 57 years. Because of this I was very careful not to be. Our problems were down to my d.i.l.s childhood and our relationship was doomed from the start. She went out of her way, and was very successful, in convincing our ES that he was the same as her, two very badly treated people. In the case of our ES, nothing if further from the truth.

Oh I most certainly believe it, I come across it all too often in my profession. What I do not understand is the idea that the DIL is to blame in almost every scenario where actually the primary relationship is between parent and child. Granted our children are going to have relationships with people we dislike at times but when we make that dislike palpable in the midst of their relationship that is a rather fundamental issue in ourselves that will only cause distance between us and our own children. Any domestic abuse support service worth a jot will tell you that in order to support a victim of abuse you must take a listening and validating approach. Were you to try in any way to control that situation, to tell your child how to proceed, you then simply become the same to their minds. The realisation of abuse must come from the victim themselves. Should you engage in a tug of war with a spouse you dislike, you stop being a refuge and become another person who is not safe. If you cannot be the light against darkness, you would make an abusers job all too easy. In the many scenarios where a child has gravitated towards a controlling spouse because their home life growing up was controlling, then things become much more difficult and complex. Focusing on the parent to child relationship and being a safe refuge that listens and validated and does not control may be easy or may be hard depending on how a parent has approached the relationship before but realising this is fundamental.

Well, it’s a sad fact that damaged people often want to cause damage to others - I suppose they feel they need validation of their behaviour. Along with solidarity and support of their partners or whoever.

But coercion is mental abuse - and it has a ripple effect on others.

I hope that you do what most others do on here - have a lovely life despite your sadness - it’s not easy though. 💐

Those who are perhaps jealous of controling DILs would surely be the ones who become jealous and controling MILs one day. The egg becomes the chicken so to speak. It would be rather short sighted to believe otherwise. I hope you agree

I dont really understand this point as a "given" that I think you are suggesting Luminance

1. It cannot be assumed that jealousy is at the root of a MIL's feelings being expressed regarding a breakdown in a relationship with an AC and their partner. It may be in some cases but is not a given

2.If jealousy is the driving emotion it doesn't mean that will inevitably be a prelude to controlling behaviour as a mother in law. I don't think there can be any assumption of that and believing such an assumption is wrong is not short sighted. (I am sure there are cases where jealousy and control go together but it's just not a given)

Thank you for your response Madgran but it was a simple example. Of course nothing is a given. Simply, one cannot acknowledge that abusive DILs exist without acknowledging that abusive MILs do too. And actually, throughout an abusive person's life they generally do not become better people, they simply become better at hiding it unless they seek professional help to deal with the underlying cause.

Yes, abusive people should get help to change their mindsets.

But, equally, those that feel badly treated by their parents, rightly or wrongly, should seek help to avoid them damaging others. 🙂

DiamondLily

Yes, abusive people should get help to change their mindsets.

But, equally, those that feel badly treated by their parents, rightly or wrongly, should seek help to avoid them damaging others. 🙂

This is both true and not true, it does rather depend on a lot of factors. Whilst some children who grew up in an abusive home might go through life believing this a good example to base their own behaviour, many in fact do not and through education and support become good people able to see and work on their own faults.

I've never seen an EAC receive a bad response Luminance unless they project thei anger and hostility toward EP's posting here.

I do agree that there's a strong possibility that jealous and controlling d'.s.i.l. will become jealous and controlling m's.i.l. and is something I worry about for our GC.

That for me is when the egg becomes the chicken so to speak.

Well, my perspective on who has received a bad response would differ entirely but whether others can objectively view that I am unsure. I believe we were in fact discussing a comment about ALL DIL in fact. Sometimes saying nothing is just as bad as saying something. Especially when there are arguments against that comment being bad and indeed at points comments stating it didn't happen at all! To me that is rather outrageous but indeed I understand why it is happening and what it means.

The comment that appears to have been twisted for the sake of causing an argument Luminance was from pascal who said that all the friends she knows who have been estranged, have been estranged because of all of their d's.i.l. (my emphasis).

No one including pascal has denied that this was said. What is being corrected is the claim that you are once again reiterating that this was about ALL DIL.

That's an example of bias Smileless2012 when believing your interpretation or reaction correct whilst ignoring that such a comment caused another pain. You are able to shut down other generalisations if they come from "EAC" as you call them. Thank you for the discussion but I think that might be my limit for today on this subject and the sun is shining whilst I waste this time.

Luminance

Thank you for your response Madgran but it was a simple example. Of course nothing is a given. Simply, one cannot acknowledge that abusive DILs exist without acknowledging that abusive MILs do too. And actually, throughout an abusive person's life they generally do not become better people, they simply become better at hiding it unless they seek professional help to deal with the underlying cause.

Oh ok. Well yes abusive people can have any role in a family; I would say that is a given.

I'm not sure that anything in this thread has suggested that anyone thinks otherwise.

No Luminance your post @ 12.02 is an example of how a poster's post is twisted. It's so clear that I don't understand why you're unable to acknowledge that pascal wasn't referring to all d's.i.l. she's referring to all the d's.i.l. of her friends who have been estranged.

It's not a question of interpretation, it's simply being able to read what has been written and I've lost count of the number of times I've acknowledged that abusive m's.i.l. exist.

It's as if you and I aren't reading the same threads and posts on GN.

The comment was made to cause the reaction it did. I deal with facts and not conjecture, especially conjecture designed for offence thank you very much.

The comment as written was not made to cause the reaction it did but the twisting of it to suggest it was about all d's.i.l., certainly was done to cause a reaction and if you deal with facts and not conjecture as you claim Luminance, you should know that.

For what it may be worth, all I know is that it has never been the prerogative of the person saying 'whatever it was' to decide if another should be hurt by it. That is their responsibility when speaking and they must do with that information as they will.

Whose been hurt Luminance? and if anyone has, how could they possibly be hurt by pascal's post unless they happen to be one of her estranged friend's d's.i.l. which is extremely unlikely.

This has become so ridiculous that I wont be commenting on this particular aspect of this discussion again.

I do hope so.

Luminance

The comment was made to cause the reaction it did. I deal with facts and not conjecture, especially conjecture designed for offence thank you very much.

Again I dont understand this point Luminance. Surely it is conjecture to say that the comment was made to cause the reaction it got. Only the person who wrote it knows why the comment was made surely.

Just an observation, It's all so terribly combative and unnecessary and blaming that on one of the apparent "factions" here is rather short sighted. 6 of one and half a dozen of the other I'd say although I do rather expect better from my generation.

Madgran77

Luminance

The comment was made to cause the reaction it did. I deal with facts and not conjecture, especially conjecture designed for offence thank you very much.

Again I dont understand this point Luminance. Surely it is conjecture to say that the comment was made to cause the reaction it got. Only the person who wrote it knows why the comment was made surely.

For whatever reason estrangement is an emotive subject.

Perhaps maing no more comments for reaction, rather self reflecting may be nice? I always advocate for a bit of decent self reflection.

Good point. I am wondering myself how I got so drawn in. Very distasteful.

Perhaps maing no more comments for reaction, rather self reflecting may be nice? I always advocate for a bit of decent self reflection

I'm not sure why you have quoted myself question to Luminance here Norah to be honest. Both my queries to Luminance have been related to trying to understand her points and certainly not "for reaction" She has explained her perspective to me in both cases which I appreciate.

Luminance

Good point. I am wondering myself how I got so drawn in. Very distasteful.

Thankyou.

It's interesting to hear different perspectives and discuss them.