Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

So sorry love0c, the absolutely worst thing to do is to start rethinking things from years ago in bed at night. When I do this I get up and make myself a chamomile tea and put the radio or telly on low and just sit and try to calm down, taking deep breaths and imagining all the worrying memories being exhaled as I do so. It doesn’t matter what you do as long as you distract your tortured mind, whatever works for you. Your husband is right of course but is easier said than done to turn our thoughts off. Whatever you do don’t lie in bed tossing and turning, getting up is preferable because after all you aren’t sleeping.
I really feel for you when this happens to me I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
Sending hugs 🤗

Babs03 Thank you so much for your kind post and helpful advice. Made myself go out his morning for a long brisk walk. this time of year does not help either I think. I told myself not to be so selfish. there will be so many people really suffering at this moment in time. rel suffering. Just hope it passes quickly this time. I do seem to be easily overcome with emotion. Time of life?

I really relate to how you are feeling Love0c as I feel the same. I am sure it is particularly bard at this time of the year. I have tried a few things to help with sleeping (which is when I struggle the most). I tried an app called Breathe which has meditation/relaxation and self hypnosis specially designed to help you sleep. But the best I find is a couple of glasses of wine, magnesium tablets and a Nytol 50mg. Did this last night and finally managed to switch off and sleep. I usually go over and over what happened too.

Estrangement is called a living bereavement. Which is like death bereavement. Suddenly out of the blue it hits you . And you are right back to the beginning and relieving it all again . For me I relieved the last 2 weeks of my husbands death for 14 years it was like watching a black and white film . Then instead of the children texting my daughter phoned I had hid it from them all those years . So it all came out and she told her brother they both said the same thing I should have told them.

It's like estrangement doesn't matter what sort it is you think you are fine you are ok then wham it hits you. And its like the beginning all over again . That's why 2 years ago I decided that was it I couldn't do that to myself anymore. So gave up any hope of seeing my son ever again and I have have been happier.

The bone crushing grief over my husband still hits at times but I don't fight it . He loved Christmas so when he died I decided never to be sad on Christmas day . Christmas eve if I need it which I haven't for years . My grief him is a all year round thing.

This year was the first year I didn't think what would my other grandsons like. I haven't forgotten them but I don't know them now . Never got to know the youngest .

I spent years not sleeping as I was needed 24/7 . Moving changed all that for me . I slept the first night here just needing to get up to go too the loo and straight back to sleep.

Never lost sleep over my son . We all are different and reach acceptance at different times . And the slightest thing can set you back . Funny enough I do most of my thinking in the shower which is only once a week as it's exhausting not thinking but showering and getting dry and putting my cream on.

Christmas for me is just one day will be with my daughter and family. Rest of the time on my own . But friends coming for lunch new year's eve.
I am not lonely being on my own but lonely for my husband that will never change .

Estrangement is hard but you can survive it . And never blame yourself things happen in families you have no control over any estrangement is hard . Doesn't matter what sort.
At least with my son it was a clean break his choose . So no walking on eggs shells or the chance of ever seeing them when I go out as we in opposite directions .

Try not to be hard on yourselves as you are the only one hurting . Be kind and love yourself . And care about those you love you and you them . 🎄

Morning everyone, hope you're all doing OK and are busy with any Christmas preparations you may have to do. Our decs went up last weekend and the outside ones; tree, stag and lights are clearly visible from the barrier at the entrance to our section of the site .

Mr. S. has had a lot of compliments so he's feeling rather pleased with himself.

Please don't beat yourself up Debbie, our ungrateful and unfeeling AC are doing that with no help from us. Your D should, and I suspect does know that anything you've said that has inadvertently upset your GD was not said to intentionally cause distress.

What loving GM would do that?

I continue to feel that your D is looking for reasons to distance herself and her children from you, and this is another one. It is as you say so easy to slip up, so much so that your D is 'guilty' of it too so rather than making the situation worse, for your GD's sake these slip ups should be sensitively and calmly explained to her rather than increasing her anxiety that they've been said deliberately.

It is a relief Sparkly when we realise that our EAC are no longer on our minds every minute of every day. For me, it came as a bit of a shock when I realised that several days had gone by and I hadn't thought of our ES at all. I even felt guilty to begin with, until I realised what a blessing it is.

Your living room looks lovely and I do love hearing about your cats as I miss Dylan terribly, and still find my self singing to him from time to time .

That must have been a heart stopping moment when you saw her car Allsorts and something that we can't begin to plan for. The last time that happened to us which was years ago, I actually experienced the 'fight or flight' reaction; pounding heart and adrenaline rushing through every part of my body.

Glad you enjoyed Faulty Towers Yogin. I don't think I ever 'got it' as it never made me laugh, rather like 'Father Ted' which Mr. S. and DS still chuckle over.

You are not being selfish love0c, we're all able to recognise that there are many who suffer much more than we do but that doesn't make our suffering any the less.

This is I truly believe is the hardest time of the year. I felt down yesterday as two of our new friends who aren't here all the time like we are went home yesterday, and we wont see them now until Boxing day. They're spending Christmas day with their son and his family.

K asked me what we were doing so I told him we have L and A who like us are here all the time, over on Christmas Eve. He asked if we were going out for dinner 'on the day' and I said no because TBH I prefer the dinner I cook, but also being surrounded by groups of people when it's just the two of us, would be a bit like us rubbing salt into the wound.

It will be the 13th anniversary of our estrangement on Christmas Eve and we're doing what we've done our best to do for the last 13 years; throwing ourselves into all things Christmas because I still love this time of the year and know how lucky I am to have Mr. S. to share it with.

You're right Whiff you think you are fine you are OK then wham it hits you so if and when it does, we know where to come don't we because the friendships we make here if we want them to be aren't just for Christmas. they're for life x

Morning all

Just a quicky as I have a busy day: walk Joey, Lidl shopping, lunch, then Hygienist, which I'm dreading and have the pain killers at the ready

Smiles I much prefer my Xmas dinner cooked at home. I have been out on Xmas day twice; once in London and once here in the Palace Hotel on the seafront, both very nice but not the same as being at home, I think.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who dreads a visit to the Hygienist Yogin.

We've re registered with the dentist we used to have before we moved, he's lovely and I was thrilled when I knew he'd be our dentist again but of course it meant a new hygienist but thankfully she's really good.

I'll be thinking of you x

First Christmas estranged from my 19yr old son, absolutely broken! I just want to go to sleep and wake up after new year. Christmas used to be my favourite time of year and this year I just can’t stand it.

Oh Strugglingmum, my heart goes out to you. It's the worse time of the year for those of us who are estranged but we're here for you .

Strugglingmum86 I feel your pain, this is my second year of being estranged from my daughter and granddaughters. It hurts so much doesn't it. I struggled yesterday particularly and went to an exercise class which usually cheers me up, but nothing cheered me up yesterday. I just seem to have days when it overwhelms me, and more of them at Christmastime, then there are other days when I can be cheerful and enjoy things. So try to keep going and keep busy.
I haven't given up hope of reconciliation yet but wonder if if should let it go for my own sanity.
Christmas has never been my favourite time of year, but this year we have decorated the house a lot and have invited my brother and his family fir Christmas this year, which I"m looking forward to. I would have spent it with my daughter and grandaughters but intend to have fun with my brother's family instead. Maybe it will be the new normal. The angry part of me wants my ED to know that we will all be having a nice time without her, but I still wish I was spending it with them obviously.
I will be thinking of all of you on here this Christmas but hope you find a way to have a nice time.
Re the hygienist, I don't go any more after I got a mouth ulcer from a visit so I take extra care of cleaning my teeth so the dentist agrees I don't need to go. It's worth the effort to save on pain and money😂

Strugglingmum86

First Christmas estranged from my 19yr old son, absolutely broken! I just want to go to sleep and wake up after new year. Christmas used to be my favourite time of year and this year I just can’t stand it.

I'm so sorry strugglingmum. Keep coming to this thread; having others to talk to will maybe help a bit. 💐

Struggling mum, your son is young, he knows you love him and hopefully in the future will reconnect. I hope you have other people in your life who care. It's so hard I know. It's been so long for me and my husband died at Christmas long ago but I now enjoy my life and the people and family I do have.,Many do reunite. Too late for me though, I do not know her.

Morning all

Lovely and sunny, wonder if I can put my washing on the line . I have one of those washer dryers, mine is crap, it doesn't seem to dry properly and really creases the cloths. I've had an engineer out twice so far. My DD has the same problems with hers but has just got a tumble dryer and says it's heaven. I really envy her. It's the room for 2 machines that's the issue.

Thank you Smiles re the hygienist. I took 2 Ibuprofen and it must have done the trick as it wasn't anything as bad as I thought it would be, but I need a second app in 10 days' time and then I can have the 'Airflow' cleaning. Costing a small fortune! I'm the opposite to you Debbie, I much prefer to go to the hygienist than the dentist. Nice app. on Friday; having a manicure in the lovely Roslin Health retreat , I'm using up a gift card that is about to expire.

I know the newly estranged are looking at my post and asking what am I rattling on about, but after 13yrs of estrangement I can know talk about other things. I remember when first estranged I spoke of nothing else when having coffee with friends and must have really burnt their ears off. Never speak of it now. Yes, Xmas time does dredge up all the emotions but it's easier to deal with now, after all these years. So be assured it will get easier for you too, above that I hope you are reunited, maybe Xmas time will open their hearts to you. Good luck xx

We're usually rattling on about something aren't we Yogin because one of the best things about this thread for me, is that we show that life does go on and in those darkest times when we were first estranged, I don't think any of us believed that it could.

Do you remember when we first met here on GN? It was new for everyone and none of us believed we could ever find peace and happiness again.

Like you, there was a time when our estrangement was the only thing we talked about with one another, friends and family but that rarely happens now apart from with Mr. S.

I'm so pleased that when we moved here I bought my large tumble dryer with me. I nearly didn't because like yours, my washer dryer is crap when it comes to drying which is why I'd never have bought one but ours came with the lodge.

It literally takes ages to get anything dry so even though it's a hassle if the weather's bad to go the the dryer in the shed, I wouldn't be without it.

So pleased your hygienist appointment went well. I have a check up and hygiene appointment on the 23rd of this month , not my idea of an early Christmas present.

I can't have an 'Airflow' clean so it's always a manual one for me.

Going out for lunch today and while I'm having my hair done and then looking for some extra treats for Mr. S. for Christmas, he'll do a bit more work on our shop unit.

We have a potential tenant coming at 2.00 pm to have a look so fingers crossed.

Strugglingmum glad you found this thread. Not because of your heart break but because we all know what you are going through and this thread about support,advice if you want ,place for you to say what you want without being judge and most importantly friendship. Plus we protect eachother from attack from trolls and the like .
You may not think it you have shown courage writing about your son . It took me months of PMs to Smiles before I could post on this thread. So glad I did.

Christmas is portrait as happy family time when everyone gets together . Which it can be when your children are young but if like my 2 once teenagers they sent time in their rooms . Watching TV or when they had mobile phones taking to friends.

Christmas isn't happy families as most family arguments flair up at Christmas time especially if you have visitors staying . That why when we got married decide to have Christmas day to ourselves. And went to parents alternate boxing day and 27th and stuck to that once we had the children.

Looking back my last Christmas with my son and family. The cracks where there it was supposed to be my Christmas day with them but my sin phoned on 23rd said they couldn't have me Christmas day as he would be to tired after working Christmas eve . Which I knew was a lie . Said they would have me boxing day. My daughter hit the roof . Don't know but it would surprise me if she hadn't told her brother what she thought of him .

I never pried into their lives once the where 16. My husband and decided that and I stuck to it after he died. Son phoned Christmas eve saying they would come to me boxing day and bring all the food and he would cook. Played with my grandson while my daughter in law sat in the armchair and crochet only talked to me if I asked a question.

When my husband was alive if his parents kicked off or there behaviour vile we walked out . Looking back I wish I had told my daughter in law if that's what she was going to do all day they then after lunch they best go home. And to honest I wish now the estrangement had happened then . At least I would have had my say .

To me Christmas has never been the same since my husband died as it was his favourite time of the year . Now it's just a day . Yes my daughter or son in law pick me up mid morning but home between 6-7 . I like being home . They only live 5-10 mins away depending on traffic .

This year is the first Christmas I haven't thought about what my son's boys my 3 grandson's would like . We are strangers . And I am ok with that as the oldest 2 where 4&2 last time I saw them ,now 9,7&5.

I am lucky I see my other 2 grandsons nearly 8 &5. My daughter laughs we have a better social life than she does.

Estrangement isn't just for Christmas but all year round . It takes everyone different times to come to terms with it and to stop it hurting you . Your estrangement is very new and raw . Like it is for Debbie . But you will get through it . But the most important thing for you and all estranged parents and grandparents your child or children they choose this not you . They choose to decide they want nothing to do with you . You didn't abandon them .

Some families have got together again not many but some have. But for me I would rather things stay as they are . I still love my son and grandsons even the one I don't know . But I can never forgive or forget what my son and daughter in law put me through.

What I find a little awkward is when people ask me how many children I have, I say two, they say how wonderful, one of each and I answer yes, change the subject. However, today was one of those odd days, doesn't happen often, when each grandchild sent me a message, I feel lucky as I never thought that day would never come. I like Yoga have been so long estranged I have made a different life and are happy with it, sometimes a glitch but soon passes.
All that talk of deep teeth cleaning makes me reach for the smelling salts , I dread having my teeth cleaned, not had deep clean or an air clean just a scale and polish when advised to, so painful I have sensitive gums, dentist says I am lucky they don't need it very often, however I wish I could avoid it. I go after Christmas and fingers crossed I don't need anything done. Different subject, can anyone tell me why I have gone off chocolate? Very odd.

Morning all

Funny my 2nd hygienist app. is on the 23rd same as you Smiles. Put my washing on to dry yesterday and it's come out creased to hell, ironed my change of bedding, now I have to iron this newly washed one as well . I remember when I did have a tumble dryer that the clothes came out crease free and ready to put away. My DD has her tumble dryer in her garage, no room in my shed for one. I do have a lobby off the kitchen where I could possible put one.

I do remember the first time I posted Smiles and of your first post too. I actually kept the early years of GN as a sort of diary. When I moved, I chucked it all out, one copy I didn't get round to chucking and now I'm glad I didn't as I would like my estGC to read it and find out what was taken from them. I cannot read it though. I remember my first sentence though; I feel like I've fallen into a black hole of despair.

Whiff terrible of your son to cancel your Xmas day visit to them on Xmas eve, it must have been upsetting for you. I remember a story of a mum that was having her son & family to Xmas dinner, cooked all the food, all the presents under the tree and they didn't turn up! She saw a pic of them having their Xmas dinner as happy as could be on FB. Now that wicked to the extreme!

Allsorts how wonderful to get an Xmas card/ message from all of your GC, I'm sure you will treasure them. When I am asked, I always say 3AC & 4GC but I don't say anything more.

This is the first time I've been to the dentist in many years; I hate it so much but if this all goes well, I will continue. This visit has cost me £200 . Covid alters your taste Allsorts, normally it comes back again but for some it stays. I do remember years back using Listern mouth wash and found I couldn't taste anything, chocolate tasted like carboard.

Smileless yes, freedoms from thinking about my estDS all the time is necessary freedom and (sadly) good for my longer term mental health.
Was Dylan a cat Smileless? Pets are family in my eyes - though some might think it silly.
And I know a pet doesn’t replace say an estDAC but it’s a real love nontheless?

I’ve planted small golden beech 90 cm hedge plants to give me more privacy - 36 of them to cover 25feet.

Countdown to Christmas Day - will any of us be on here on that day - just in case?

Yogin did you have COVID? I did and my taste buds have not been the same ever since.
I’ve got used to it. Even my curries taste like cardboard!

I had Covid 4 times, each time after vax. Perhaos tgats why my taste has altered.
I haven't hot a tumble dryer, I gave it away as it was in danger of rusting out .I used to look at all the fluff that accumulated and gave up. What I do have is a clothes airer and I put washing over it loosely and leave overnight, dry next morning and no ironing. A couple of friends have bought the heated clothes airers and say how fantastic they are. However I do wash according to the weather, its rare i don't get a day to put it on the line.
This week I have had two get togethers cancelled, one has flue the other has Norovurus. I can always find things to do but this is when I feel alone. In the past I was part of walking groups and all associated with it, now I can’t do it, comes to all I know.
Yoga, It was lovely to get a message but nothing beats a hug!

Sparkly I believe I had Covid twice, last time definitely lost my taste, but it's back now. I no doubt will be on here Xmas day. Going to DD for Xmas dinner, which will be about 2pm, so we will arrive there at about 12noon. Are you doing anything nice?

Allsorts no nothing beats a hug & kiss. I do have a heated clothes airer and use it for jumpers etc. When I had a spare room, I would put my clothes in there to dry, but now it has to be in my bedroom and with my son living with me a tumble dryer is a must in the winter.

Have a nice Sunday everyone; sunny & dry.

Morning all.

I hope Debbie and strugglingmum that you're both OK .

Yes Sparkly Dylan was my last sphynx cat and as it is with you, our pets have always been 'family'. We got our little poodle about 6 months after we'd been estranged, and from the moment we brought him home, we brought love back into our lives.

He's my little angel without wings and was instrumental in getting us through the darkest times.

Like you Whiff, we believe that the situation is best left. I've felt that way for sometime but it was only the other day that Mr. S. said he no longer believed reconciliation was a possibility.

We could never have anything to do with her and I wouldn't want to see our GS's. I don't even feel I would want to meet our GS's now. Not knowing what lies they've been told about us, I just wouldn't feel comfortable. So that would leave ES and having nothing to do with her and not seeing his boys would be extremely limiting, so what would be the point.

We can never have what we once had or at least what I thought we had and our lives are different now; we are different too. I feel safe and I don't think I could ever feel that again if he came back into our lives.

You were the first one to respond to me Yogin and it really felt as if we were holding hands and in it together, as we tried to find our way through the darkness and the pain.

Sometimes when asked I say one and sometimes I say two Allsorts. Re GC, I tend to say we don't have any because we don't really do we. It depends on my mood and whose asking.

Reading that you've been messaged by all your GC brought tears to my eyes, this is just the right time of the year to hear such good news x

No church for us this morning as it's an 'open all day' affair with lots of carol singing and all things Christmas which will be lovely of course, but still too much for me even after 13 years, so I shall be baking mince pies .

I've usually made some by now and I think Mr. S. thought he'd have to do without, so much so that when shopping on Friday he asked if we were going to buy some!!! .

I never have shop bought mince pies, don't like them.

Enjoy your Sunday everyone, Mr. S. will when he can start tucking into the mince pies.

Smileless I saw a great post somewhere;

Sometimes angles come with fur not wings.

I understand too your not going to your church open day about all things Christmas, I have felt similar on Oxford St at Christmas time. Too OTT for me because of the Estrangement.

Yogin re Covid I had a bad dose of it in March - April 2020 then a bit milder since. Taste hasn’t come back. Allsorts 4 times dear me.

On Christmas Day I prefer to spend it alone but cousins will call on Boxing Day. Christmas for me starts with Carols from Kings, live on Radio 4 at C 3.30 pm Christmas Eve. I settle down with nice drink, these days non alcoholic, and relax, nothing else to buy, fridge full of food.