Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

Morning everyone.

When it first happens, you simply can't imagine that you'll be estranged for ever can you Hilltop . I lost count of the number of well meaning relatives and friends telling us not to worry he'll be back and yet here we are, more than 13 years later.

That final email I sent our ES did help bring some closure Debbie because I told him that although I loved him and always would, I wouldn't be contacting him again. It had been his decision to estrange but it was mine, not to chase after him.

It's great that you're happy with, and benefiting from having a cleaner Whiff. Even if they're places you can't actually see, you sound like me needing to know that they're clean.

It's such a common ice breaking question isn't it Allsorts; do you have children and GC and I think now that we're estranged, I can see that it isn't always a welcomed one.

I say we have a son in Aus. whose divorced and no children. That seems to work rather well because as far as I can remember, I've never been asked if we have any others. I suppose people just assume he's an only child which to all intents and purposes, he is now.

Can't wait to hear about what you thought of 'Madam Butterfly' Yogin, I hope you really enjoyed it.

It was such a beautiful warm and sunny day here yesterday that it's rather disappointing to be back to an overcast and chilly one today. A little touch of spring yesterday and can't wait for more.

Morning all, lovely day again.

Madam Butterly was really good, so sad! Had subtitles above, but it was all in the original Japanese dialogue, so not appropriate for our culture & times. For instance, Madam Butterfly was only 15yrs old!

Booked to go to the theatre again this Saturday [The Dualers] & next Friday [an Irish band] with my friend who has just got back from her Xmas visit to her son in Oz.

Have a nice day all xx

Went to see Cinderella last night my young friend was in it. It was amazing we booed,shouted and laughed. The acting,singing and dancing was better than professionals as they did for the love of it. Sets and costumes where wonderful and all made possible with the back ground members. The atmosphere in the hall was electric all ages where there. They have 2 performances today and last one tomorrow night.

Sat by one of my Womble friends and she gave me a lift home . And I got to meet my young friends dad . She loved the silk flowers I had brought her from Etsy they looked so real went to put them in water. She has over come a lot of health problems. It was her first time on stage she was so confident and funny . So glad I went . Will have to look out for there next production which will probably be in the autumn .

Oh dear the latest threads on this forum are getting nasty . Names coming out of the woodwork haven't seen before and the usual trouble makers are at it . I really don't see the point of people taking pleasure in hurting others . They must live very sad lives .

Whiff, so glad you enjoyed Cinderella. Isn’t it lovely watching the young ones thrive? I am seeing my 6 year GD in her dance show on 21st and am so looking forward to it.
I didn’t see any nasty posts on here - have they been taken down? It s a very good website if they are recognised and deleted straight away.

Sorry the letter wasn’t what you hoped for Debbie - but the advice on here spot on as usual. Estrangement does seem to follow a similar pattern…..mostly hard line cutting folk off rather than being willing to work towards any reconciliation or mutually acceptable interaction. And it seems once a few years have passed even less so.
But I have a question - those of you with children not estranged, what do you do about photos of gc? Knowing we have gc we’ve never met, I feel uncomfortable only having photos of the gc we do interact with around our home. It feels like we are erasing the estranged gcs existence…even though our lack of relationship with them isn’t by choice. And not their fault.

Yes I have that dilemma too. I still have photos of my two est granddaughters around the house, but to be perfectly honest, at the moment its quite painful looking at them But it doesn’t seem right to take them down - its not their fault.

Debbie no nasty posters on this thread. Though we have had them and trolls but we band together behind Smiles and get rid of them . It's other threads on this forum. Ever time a new one appears it turns nasty and posters get deleted and occasionally the whole thread is deleted . You can tell who the trouble makers are also if posters change their username they are found out as they post the same garbage they always do .

This thread if I remember correctly has been running over 13 years Smiles or Yogin will put me right . Many have tried to get rid of it but it's still here for those who need it . An old poster who reconnected with her child can't remember what sex called us Warrior Queens I liked that but some didn't.

Me being me had this vision of us on chariots led by Smiles fake fur capes flying behind us with sword and spears at the ready. 😂. But you have noticed I am weird . But a nice weird.

Spring last time I saw my son's eldest 2 boys they where 4&2. I have the last photo of them in a frame in my living room. Along with lots of photos of the my daughter's boys and other family photos. Many years ago my eldest grandson with my daughter asked about the boys so I told him their names and asked me if I play with them I said no and he nor his brother has never asked. I would never tell them they are my grandsons and their cousins and they have another cousin and aunt and uncle . As far as they are concerned they only have 2 cousins and aunt and uncle my son in law's sisters family . But they know about their great uncle and aunt and their 2 nd cousins soon their will be a 3rd cousin. My oldest niece and her husband are expecting beginning of April so expecting news in few weeks I am a great auntie .

In my bedroom have a frame ironically that my son and daughter in law brought me which they put pictures of their eldest 2 my last Christmas I saw them in 2019. I changed the photos and put in my favourite ones of them . All pictures that contain my son and daughter in law are in a cupboard and I never look at the photo albums of my son and family. I imagine their youngest looked like they did at 4&2. It doesn't make me sad having the photos out because that's the time I knew them .

But of course they won't remember me know . And knowing my daughter in law if they asked anything about if they have another nannie she would have told them I am dead or I don't care about them .

But as I have said my son is now a stranger so are my grandsons. I am not the mom him knew. And I have no room in my life for him not that he will ever contact me every again. If my grandsons do find me then I won't hold back about what their parents put me through before and after the estrangement. I like my life as it is and have no tolerance for bad behaviour from anyone .

I do love my son but the son I had for 32 years not who he is now at neatly 39 . Love my grandsons because they are part of my husband and family . But I don't love them like my grandsons I know and have watched them grow up .

It's an awful thing when you have to protect yourself from your own child . But I made my decision to do just that in 2023 . And to be honest I don't want to see my son . As I know I would slap his face . I can not forgive or forget and he betrayed my trust . Also he broke a promise to me and that is unforgivable.

Morning everyone.

Glad you enjoyed Cinderella Whiff; I can just see you booing, shouting and laughing .

us on chariots led by Smiles fake fur capes flying behind us with sword and spears at the ready that made me Whiff which I needed this morning, after a difficult night out last night.

Two friends we've made since moving here aren't here every weekend and when they are, we always go out for a meal on Saturday evening. The lovely Italian on the site next to ours has closed down so we booked for us all to go to an India last night.

We knew it would be busy and slow and said so but she just made the evening tense and awkward. We'd only been sat down a few minutes when she was up to go to the bar because we hadn't been able to order drinks. It's not as if we were the only ones there and it was obvious that those already seated didn't have drinks.

When they eventually brought our food, they came with the main courses and had forgotten we hadn't had our starters. As I was explaining this to the young waiter, she was asking her husband to move so she could get out and go to order more drinks!!!

Mr. S. had to ask them to take his curry away and reheat it because it was luke warm so it wasn't the best experience but the food was as usual very nice.

When the bills came, she started complaining that they'd been charged for a main course of her chicken tikka when she'd asked for a starter portion. I said he'd obviously got confused because she'd wanted it as a main and when it was brought to the table it was clearly bigger than it would have been had it been a starter size.

I couldn't believe it when she complained saying she wanted £4 knocked off the bill, especially as she'd eaten every bit of it!!! I was flabbergasted and kept repeating to myself what my gran used to say about keeping one's powder dry.

We got a message from the manager of the Italian the night before Valentine's that it was closing and knowing how busy everywhere would be, I said I'd do a meal for us rather than going out. They said they'd try and book somewhere, which they did and it was quite frankly awful.

A very busy and noisy pub with mediocre food which TBH was a waste of money but did we moan and complain? No, because I wouldn't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable when they'd gone to the trouble of booking somewhere for us to go.

I was just relieved when we got home and I could release the annoyance that had been set to burst out of me.

Rant over

Our ES's boys are the only GC we have Spring and none of the few photo's we have of the eldest are of him more than 8 months old, which neither of us derive any pleasure from seeing.

You need to do what's right for you so if having pictures of the GC you're estranged from on show brings you pleasure then do so. If this upsets you then put them away.

As you and Debbie say; it isn't their fault but this isn't about fault, it's about doing whatever makes day to day life living with estrangement that little bit easier because let's be honest, it's anything but easy isn't it.

for you both.

Smiles and Mr S sorry you had such a horrible experience with that couple. Has the woman got a drink problem if she kept going to the bar?
I take it wouldn't be going out for a meal again with them .

Glad I made you smile . I must have ESP and thought Smiles needs a boost this morning 🤣🤣🤣.

Hopefully this will also make you smile I may have already written but I can't be bothered to read my rambles 😁.
My friend who was in Cinderella is my youngest friend nearly 16. She has health problems so joining the am dram group has boost her confidence. So I wanted to get her some flowers . Anyway decided to buy silk ones from Etsy . I was really happy with them . She loved them and went to put them in water until someone told her they where silk. But they look just like real flowers plus they came in cellophane like from a florists . Never seen such life like flowers. She gave me a big hug and her mom and dad did to . To me it was just a little thing but seeing her face light up was precious. I had put in a card. I don't buy cards for words unless it's a special occasion. The card I gave her had a young woman on a horse riding away. To me it symbolised her journey into going to college and her confidence that she will beable achieve what she wants.

Oh dear that does sound very hairy fairy like I say I am weird.

I meet 2 friends on GN who live in the next 2 towns from me. We meet once a month on a Friday. Last time it was my choice a vegan restaurant but they both loved it . My daughter has taken me there a few times. We pay for our meals separately as it's the easiest way. In January one if my friends had to send her meal back as the meat was very fatty inside. But it wasn't a problem and the chef made sure she had a lean piece which she loved.

Who ever eats out with me knows of my problems as I am upfront about it . As I need my meal cutting up in the kitchen I haven't been able to use a dinner knife for years. And eat with spoon and fork plus plenty of napkins as I can drop food down me . But I have had no problems here or when on holiday.

Flowers I got my friend

No not a drink problem Whiff more of a lack of patience problem and TBH it has put me off going out with them and I think Mr. S. found it rather stressful wondering if I'd be able 'to keep my powder dry' .

It may come as a surprise to you all that I'm not usually backward at coming forward .

Beautiful flowers .

Sorry about your night out Smiles! I’d definitely offer to cook next time 😊
The issue with the photos is we’ve been offered a large framed photo of the non estranged grandchildren professionally taken. It seems (perhaps unreasonably) in my head to diminish the estranged gc, even though we don’t see them. I think putting it up will feel upsetting. Maybe I just explain this and see if it can be changed for a smaller one. An awkward but not impossible conversation. Estrangement really is the ‘gift’ that keeps on giving isn’t it ☹️

Lovely flowers Whiff - what a nice gesture!

Sorry to hear about your awkward night out Smiles. I don't think I would want to go out with them again. Making you feeling uncomfortable like that is not ok. It's one thing to complain if the service isn't good but it should be done gracefully, but to make everyone in your party feel uncomfortable about it is inconsiderate and rude. I avoid those situations!

just be as certain as you can be that by offering an explanation and requesting a smaller photograph, you wont be offending them Spring.

Estrangement is a bloody nightmare isn't it and we end up questioning and second guessing situations we'd never have thought of it hadn't happened.

Well I'm hoping they wont be coming this weekend Debbie so we can have a relaxed and peaceful evening out, just the two of us.

Whiff, lovely flowers, l was once confused by silk flowers. Looked very realistic.
Smileless, what an embarrassing meal out. I would hate that sort of upset.
About photos. Am l unusual in that l still have a photo on my wall of my ES. I got rid of any that show him as an adult, but this one shows him on holiday About seven years old. It just makes me think of the happy times we once had.

I too have a photo of EC on the wall aged about 7 - and like you Hilltop it reminds me of happier times. I feel ok about it. I think Smiles is spot on when she says we have to do just the things we feel ok about, and lay down the things that are upsetting. Is so much with estrangement we have no control over (triggers coming out of the blue). Seems only to make good sense then to take action where we can to help ourselves stay in a good/stable place. I don’t think I ever before fully appreciated all a peaceful life means. I know I don’t socialise as much as before the estrangement because I’m so tired of those awkward conversations when folk ask about children/gc. And that’s ok. The peace is by far more preferable. I know is different for others but it works for me.

Smiles you are like me have no patience for bad behaviour. It's annoying but also embarrassing not necessarily for you but for the waiting staff. As you said they where very busy. I never mind waiting for my food especially if I know it's freshly cooked. Luckily my 2 GN friends are like me and we chatter while waiting .

Spring you are so right about estrangement. I have a favourite photo of my son and mom dancing at my daughter's wedding. They are both laughing but it's in a cupboard this will sound strange but if I had it out I would feel my son is mocking me .

My sister in law's son's may contact her on birthday,mother's day and Christmas but not always . She hasn't got any photos of them up. Even though my brother has an excellent relationship with his children he hasn't got any photos of them up either . But I am sure there will be lots of their grandchild when I go in July . And I will have photos of my great niece or nephew up here.

I have videos on my phone of my 2 grandsons I know but I can't watch them as I can hear my son and in one see and hear when my daughter in law was pregnant with their 3rd son.But I can't erase them just can't do it.

I didn't see the estrangement coming but I put up with a lot of things I wouldn't have if I lived where I do know . Because I only saw them occasionally where I used to live I was just happy to see them. Plus looking after my parents and mother in law took all my time and energy.

But I am happy my son isn't in my life sounds awful but I have no tolerance for bad behaviour. It's why I left the craft group I had been a member of for 5 years . And let them know exactly why I left I didn't mince my words.

I don't have any photos of my son up as a child simple reason my grandson's would ask questions and they don't know their mom has a brother. My daughter and I haven't spoken about him since the unopened crushed presents ,cards and that letter arrived in August 2020.

That's the great thing about all of you we can say how we really feel and know everyone understands.. 💞

Morning all

Just read Smiles post and no time to read more, will do tomorrow. Sorry to read about your embarrassing meal, I would feel the same, think you may be reluctant to repeat.

Whiff glad you had such a good time at the panto, my youngest GD has one at the end of this month that I'm going to, it's Robin hood, she was hoping for the part of Maid Marion, but think she is a frog .

I only have pics of my GDs in my life, not purposely done, just when I moved, I didn't unpack all my pics, so still in the packing box. Strangely, on my FB page they are there on the left side as family, lovely picture of when I last saw them. Saw a post this morning of a friend's GD who was born on the same week as my Laila, I just looked in wonder at how my estGD must be the same.

Must dash.......

TBH Yogin we are reluctant to repeat. It was never really an issue when we always went with them to the Italian on the next door site, but that's closed down.

It's a bit of a dilemma because we always go out as a foursome when they're here and have done so since we moved in .

Went to the lovely Minster in the town just 5 miles from here to see an exhibition of tapestries depicting the Creation through to the Resurrection.

Those on show were one third of the total Jacqie Parkinson has done and they're stunning. The entire collection took 10 years to complete with a total of 25 million stitches!!!

Morning all. lovely and sunny! hope to put some washing on the line this morning. Having an MOT at the docs at 10.15 this morning, you get the invite once you turn 70yrs, my first one.

Whiff lovely silk flowers, some do look very real.

I couldn't put up a pic of my estGC here, when I lived in my big house, they were already up, but I moved one into the dining room, behind a biggish palm plant, so you had to look for it to see it and did have another collage of them in the hallway, quite high up, so not in your face. The one on the coffee table of them, in a lovely silver frame, I put away. I have a small pic of my AC when they were about 1, 3 &6yrs in my bedroom, my GDs have asked who they are and are told but never seem to what to know more about their aunty that they have never met.

Morning all.

It's a lovely sunny but cold morning here, preferable to the awful wind and rain we had on Thursday. Mr. S. had to move plants on the decking so they wouldn't blow over and take the pots off their little 'feet' for stability.

We saw two magnificent hares yesterday, one running across the golf course and one just outside the front of our lodge.

Some strange goings on on the estrangement form. A new poster started a thread which was quickly deleted and I assumed she'd asked for it to be removed because she'd changed her mind.

She then started another one with a slight alteration to her name asking what had happened and she, and that thread was also deleted. I believed it to be genuine and responded on both threads but maybe GN knew something we didn't.

No church for us tomorrow as I avoid the Mothers Day services so we're going to clean the carpets and then the suite on Monday, which we'll do by hand as the cushions have feather interiors and I don't want to make them too wet.

Had a rather upsetting 'phone call from K, our lovely girl who was our neighbour before we moved. Her mother's a very unpleasant individual, never hiding her jealousy of the relationship we had with her and her partner, our lovely S who died.

K did meet someone very quickly after S died and they're still together but her mum's jealousy was TBH off the scale. She thought K would move to be much nearer to her parents which she did temporarily, getting a job she hated (which I knew she would) but came back after a few months back to the house she'd sensibly kept on, and back to her job here.

K and her partner went down to see K's parents but because she made them both feel very uncomfortable, they cut the visit short.

She has emailed K telling her that she'll have nothing more to do with her while she's with her new partner, so she'd been estranged by her own mother!!!

I asked about her dad but she said ultimately he'll do what he's always done which is whatever it takes for a quiet life; how familiar is that.

She's responded, telling her mum that her door will always be open should she change her mind but if that ever happens, the relationship would never be the same.

She's OK. It's been coming for sometime, ever since S died and had she not been such a lovely and easy going person it may have happened a lot sooner because J just has to be the centre of everyone's universe.

She may relent of course but has inevitable permanently damaged her relationship with her daughter; a prime example of jealousy ultimately destroying the very thing it covets .

Have a good weekend xx

Morning all.

Lovely sunny day today, no wind! New folk over the road to us, [week before Xmas] put all their black sack rubbish in their paper & recycling bins, so of course bin men didn't take. One sack blow over the road and eventually onto our driveway and lots of the contents spilled out, such a mess! Upstairs, including their parents have walked past it many times and even though the bin bag has landed up against their black bin, they haven't touched it, so down to me again to clean up . Would be nice if they helped from time to time too. They have a little pile of rubbish by the side of their bins, been there 6mths, being added to with bits & pieces now & again, 0ne foot from their bins I've bitten my tongue off to not say anything, but it's so unsightly!

Have my DD&GDs coming at 4.30pm DD&H on a date night, whilst I mind the C. So will get my Mother's Day gifts and cards today. Got an email beginning of week from Toby Carvery urging to book for Mother's Day, I forwarded it to my son, saying; we can do this or you're cooking, cos I'm not and eventual answer was yes, we could do that Nothing booked, so doubt we could at this late stage, but anyway I would prefer my son to cook whilst I put my feet up and watch 'Women of substance' .

Went to the theatre again last night to see the 'Dubliners', they were brilliant!

Smiles think you are doing the best thing re, no church on Mothering Sunday. My sister went one year, and they asked all the mothers to stand, nice words said no doubt, but then the asked all the women who were not mothers to stand, so my sister, she must have felt bad/sad at having to do that. Think the vicar must have realised his blunder when he asked the mums to stand and then made it worse with asking those non-mums . Hope you get your nice bouquet of flowers & card from your DS in Oz Smiles

Not good news from your 'girls' then Smiles, still rumbling on with K's mother clearly not liking new partner, maybe cos it was very quick after S passed away.

Happy Mother's Day to all for tomorrow, have a lovely day what-ever you do

Smiles I saw that about those threads . Why is it when someone starts a new thread you have to be suspicious if it's real or not . When it is real names appear you have never seen before and the usual nasty posters have a dig.

Thankfully this thread is still going strong and we get rid of the nasties and trolls as quickly as we can. Life isn't black and white but shades of grey . As these new threads appear which I do read I wonder why they start them in the first place there was one about being a first time nan this year but her son and daughter in law moving to Dubai before the baby is born . Can't see that happening with the bombings .

I never expected to be a nan but I am . I am lucky that I see my daughters boys but she always checks it's ok to come as she knows what my social life is like . She asked what I wanted for mother's day but just couple of cards if I want anything I buy it . But I did say I know what I want for my birthday next month I want to go too the beach. Her response was of course you silly cow🤣🤣. That's my girl . There is no bus stop near the beach and I can't walk that far spent time at the beach and walk to the bus stop. I know I can have a taxi but rather spend money on when I need one .

My brother and sister in law see hares often sometimes boxing . Once saw 12 in a field . Lincolnshire is flat like here. But never seen a hare . I find it thrilling when I see wild animals and birds I haven't seen before I am easy to please 😁.

That's awful of K's mother . I know how much you and Mr S loved the girls and where devastated when the S died but happy when K got a new partner. And they where both happy .
I still remember all the times you posted about your lovely girls . And about K and her new partner. And how much you would miss them but it's wonderful you keep in touch .
Our children love who they do . Even though estranged and know it's down to my daughter in law's jealousy of how close I was with my son and how much their 2 eldest loved being with me . I am glad they love eachother.

I know having my son effected my health if I had known about by how much we wouldn't have had him . But I don't regret having him as he was kind and loving fir 32 years. But I have let go and as I have said before I have no room for him in my life now. We are strangers . And I am happy with silence as I have no tolerance for his or my daughter in law's nonsense.

Mr W parents where vile from we first courting . If they kicked off we walked out . Once married when every Sunday if they started we walked out but went back the next Sunday . Mr W never liked his parents but loved them . That's why I looked after his mom for 11 years after he died. It wasn't because I liked her as I hated her for 40 years . But she was still family and the kids always kept in contact with her . Even though she told people she had no grandchildren nor did she have a son.

I never told either of the children she denied having their dad or they where her grandchildren. My daughter still doesn't know . I have kept secret because they would have both been hurt by her. She hurt them by refusing to go too their weddings.

I have never seen the point of mother's day or father's day .

I used to love mothers day when my mum was alive and of course before we were estranged but now it's just one of those difficult times of the year to get through.

This will be the first mothers day that K's mum doesn't hear from her DD; I wonder if that will be the wake up call she needs but somehow I doubt it.

I don't believe it ha s anything to do with K meeting someone so soon after S's death Yogin, she's definitely a narcissist and I've thought so almost from the first time I met her.

So we've cleaned the carpet and it was an 'OMG' moment when we saw how dirty the water was so we're decided to do them every 6 months.

I've cleaned one settee and will do the other one tomorrow as we need somewhere to sit, but I think it'll be dry by tea time as I did it by hand to avoid making it too wet. Scatter cushions washed and will take while to dry as I didn't want to risk spin drying just in case.

Had to laugh when Mr. S. was struggling to get the top off the new bottle of cleaner when he said "this is ridiculous; how do old people manage". We both had a good laugh when I pointed out that he is an old person .