Son has signed out

I must be a glutton for punishment JaneJudge

I would never read a help for support, from someone in obvious emotional pain, and then put them down and make them feel worse. Neither have I DiamondLily and I do wonder if the air is thinner for those on the moral high ground who look down on us less than perfect mere mortals.

Smileless2012

Taking cursing at someone in rage over a reasonable request in isolation can be seen as unacceptable bakestrategic but it's clear from NorthernRiverDad's posts that there's a background of hurt, anxiety and frustration. So no, in the context of what we know, because we should only base our responses on what we've been told, I don't agree that this is an example of emotional immaturity.

We see it time and time again don't we Allsorts.

I find your post @ 03.01 simply ridiculous User.

Hurt, anxiety, and frustration are no excuse to verbally abuse someone, especially one’s own adult children. It’s also not in isolation, the poster said it’s “not common.” Implying this wasn’t the first time and likely won’t be the last.
I’m very confused about the talk of perfect parents and perfect children. Surely it goes without saying no one is perfect? That doesn’t mean abusive behavior is acceptable, no matter the context. Not calling this behavior emotionally immature boggles my mind, but thank you for answering my question anyhow. I hope the poster takes what everyone has said on board and considers how his own behavior may have harmed his relationships with his children.

Surely it goes without saying no one is perfect? You'd think so wouldn't you bakestrategic because if only 'perfect' people should become parents which has been suggested on this thread, the human race would die out wouldn't it.

It seems striving for perfection and not verbally abusing your family is indistinguishable from perfection itself to some people. Very sad honestly.

No User I don't equate emotional maturity with perfection because there's no such thing as perfection and those who do seek to achieve it, usually do so at a cost to themselves and those around them because perfection is ultimately unachievable.

JaneJudge

I'm surprised Smileless even posts on these threads anymore. There is always a queue of anonymous people demanding she answers their questions!

I would ask anyone who says it’s acceptable to abuse their family from time to time as long as the context is right, to explain their thought process. Not sure what’s so shocking about that.

*one’s family I meant to say

Cutting out/going no contact with your parent(s) is very extreme and should only be applied when a parent has been abusive (neglect, emotional, physical or sexual).
I definitely had an emotionally abusive parent but found distancing from them worked well.
I saw them at wider family events and managed to have very little contact.

There is always a queue of anonymous people demanding she answers their questions!

You're absolutely right, there is! And always homing in on one specific poster with the same shrill demands for answers. Odd isn't it? Good job they're so easily identified and even easier to ignore.

his outburst was a mistake well that's a more measured response User.

Unfortunately he's probably read your initial one where you said that his response to his son was an insane way to respond and that he definitely isn't mature enough to be a parent.

Do Posters visit these Threads to help or to hurt?

Still being harangued, smileless?
How many years now is it that "people" zoom straight in to shred your replies, specifically?

Some respond to offer help and support, and some to hurt and I think the fact that NorthernRiverDad hasn't as yet returned (I hope he does) demonstrates how harmful hurtful and judgemental responses can be Maremia.

Yes, I'm still being harangued MissA; some things never change do they and I'll never stop challenging the hurtful and judgemental posts that unfortunately this estrangement forum continues to attract.

It's great to see you back .

Ah, thank you, smileless.
Keep on keeping on.
You're a tower of strength to people who are estranged, or in danger of becoming so.

Cardamom

^There is always a queue of anonymous people demanding she answers their questions!^

You're absolutely right, there is! And always homing in on one specific poster with the same shrill demands for answers. Odd isn't it? Good job they're so easily identified and even easier to ignore.

Estrangement is an oddly emotive subject.

Seemingly many opinions, demands for answers is quite odd.

IMO, Smileless 2012 certainly answers and ignores well.

IMO, Smileless 2012 certainly answers and ignores well.

She certainly does Norah but then she's seen the same bridge dweller coming round and round for years now and she always cuts them down to size.

Recently we discussed here the use of "vulgar language" and it is interesting to see the differences of opinion when it is an estranged parent admitting to it rather than it coming from an estranged child.

There is a difference in how language is used.

If it is used to express feelings to third party others I do not see an issue with it.

If it is used to shout and swear at somebody yes I would class that as abusive.

I think I could say the same of expressing dislike of a child.

If it were expressed to third party others it is one thing

If it were expressed to the child it could be classed as abusive.

Much better to not shout and swear at people and express that you don't like a behaviour, not a person you wish to have a good relationship with.

NOTHING about estrangement, from whichever direction you're looking at it, is a simple objective reality There are millions of scenarios, personalities, situations, opinions, versions of events, perspectives and emotions involved in every single estrangement. Thinking that there's one simple objective is, perhaps, where you're going wrong; it's more nuanced than that. And Smileless2012 appears to have the emotional maturity to acknowledge that.

It must be amazing to be perfect.

Is it User? There's nothing amazing about being a non abusive parent, they are after all in the majority.

Absolutely Smileless, and another attribute is being kind and understanding of others.

NortherRiverDad checked out days ago; he no longer cares what you, or anyone else thinks of his parenting skills. He most certainly couldn't care less that a random poster on an anonymous chat site has turned themselves inside out for days, beating their breast with angst at the very thought of his Anglo-Saxon language! You're pretty much arguing with yourself at this point User15839. Maybe if he comes back and admits that he beats his children like a gong, you'll get more traction but, in the meantime, maybe channel your inner Elsa.....🎵🎵🎵

User, I think intransigence and inflexibility can be more harmful in family relationships than an outburst of anger or frustration.

I think most people can understand that “to err is human”, but coming up against that brick wall of someone (a parent, an EAC?) who believes themselves to be always right can feel like tyranny.

If you’re referring to NorthernRiverDad, no he did not admit to sometimes “verbally abusing” his children. He admitted to losing his temper with his adult son. It happens.

Do you prefer people to acknowledge fault or not?

How old is this "child"?