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I have been having issues with my daughter ever since her husband left her. And she has a best friend, since high school, who claims she was abused. I don't know if that is true or not, but, seems my daughter talks a lot about and has now claimed she was an abused child.
She even is starting to make my grandkids think I am not safe in some way or was a bad parent/grandparent. They told me and it suck that the oldest one seems to believe it. The youngest told me she doesn't believe it.
Anyway, this is complete fabrication and I am thought maybe the best friend has been projecting her childhood onto my daughter.
My confusion is, when I offered to discuss the alledged abuse, she got mad that I didn't believe or acknowledge she was abused.
I went mad trying to get just ONE example. Just ONE. A long message conversation with me offering to talk in person or at least give one example on the messages.
She kept ranting about me and how I act, called me psychotic if I am called out on something.
Well, I have recently been deciding when she does say something very untrue to me, I don't agree with her. I've always been more of a silent person when attacked, will just leave the room, ignore it, etc. but lately I decided to at least basically defend myself like most people would.
Not arguing, just saying yeah no that's not true kinda thing. No big deal. That's now psychotic in her view.
Anyway my question is, has anyone here had an experience that when you ask about abuse, with the tone of if I did something I will apologize kinda thing, that then the adult child avoids, attacks and basically never tell you what you did?
It's completely maddening. You feel so hurt yet you are trying to understand by getting an answer. It's looney.
So finally, she mentioned children need to feel safe. I had a husband who yelled at me all the time. I thought ok, so maybe she was scared of him?
That's reasonable I think with a young child. But that's not abuse if I didn't know she was scared at times. Most the time she was always smiling. I can't read minds.
I told her if just once she told me she was scared, I may have tried to help her. But not knowing her feelings isn't abuse, it's lack of knowledge.
No matter, I told her I had no idea, that what she said was valid. Yet she still insisted she was abused and she said I won't accept it.
Again, how can you accept what exactly?
Don't kids know what happened?
I read about Mackalay Culkin and his story about his dad slapping him across the face and how Culkin said he had no bed to sleep on while his dad had a large comfy bed, etc.
He had examples of abuse.
What is the deal when an adult child can give no examples?
No clues? and the idea when you say you are ready to listen anyway, they don't want to talk or they avoid/distract with their opinions of your behaviors rather than on the subject of the abuse?
It got to the point of so many horrid accusations of abuse, again, using only the word abuse, even saying I do it with my grandchildren (too many hugs? idk?)
Now I am worried this will end badly. I did acknowledge her fear as a kid. But this is kinda nuts. Anyone who knows what this is, give me a clue.
I feel like the best friend projected so much of her own childhood now that my daughter thinks it's hers. I mean, she's known the friend for decades but seems now that her husband took off on her leaving her a single mom with 2 kids, it seems now something is seriously wrong. A couple of years ago, when her husband first left, she talked alot about her friend helping abused kids, and there was a predator defense protocol that the friend told her about for kids.
She used it one day to throw me out after I teared up a little when she yelled at me.
I never asked her why she used that. But she's a grown adult.
It's mental.
Does anyone know what this is?
Smileless I do believe though that the best course of action is to take a step back and wait for her to contact you and also wait for her to raise anything from her past, rather than asking her to do so
I agree
If the OP's daughter feels aggrieved that her mother didn't leave her father therefore removing her from the situation, I can see that an apology together with an explanation would be warranted DL. As far as I'm aware though, this has already been given by the OP.
Starfire's D doesn't appear to be holding her father in anyway responsible DL which under the circumstances suggests that the OP is to a certain extent being scapegoated.
Smileless2012
People don't have to read Starfire's posts and don't have to respond if they don't want too so if anyone's bored with this thread, there are plenty of other threads to go on.
You do appear to be banging your head against a brick wall at the moment Starfire so I suggest that you take a break from contacting your D and wait for her to contact you.
You now know that the shouting that went on impacted negatively on her childhood and I think I'm right in thinking that you've apologised for this, so it's time for a line to be drawn under this. If she's not prepared to accept your apology there's nothing more you can do.
Regarding other accusations, if you believe them to be unfounded, the best course of action is to talk about where these have come from; why does she believe things happened when you're convinced they never did. Doing so is not simply dismissing what she's saying, on the contrary it demonstrates your concern that she has these 'memories' and could show you that something you'd never considered, or even forgotten about did indeed occur.
I do believe though that the best course of action is to take a step back and wait for her to contact you and also wait for her to raise anything from her past, rather than asking her to do so.
Thank you once again, for sticking up for me Smileless2012. I think this is what I need to do, is just let it go with her.
Now I'm so hurt over my grandson, as he does not interact with me much like he used to; he doesnt' cuddle or hug me like he used to, and it's not his age because he will still cuddle and hug his mom, sister, and just about anyone else.
Today he was over and he was in the room asking me to get something for him out of the closet; we talked briefly and I noticed he would not make eye contact with me while he was talking to me! It was weird so I joked about, looking where he was looking, positioning my face in his line of sight and he finally said what? I said I noticed you were talking to me but not looking at me at all. He just said oh. But he's never done that before. It's like he's avoiding me now.
She has cut down on visits quite a bit too.
I can only hope somehow he will revert back to trusting in me again, because I do get the feeling he does not in some way, no doubt from all her talk about me.
But with not being around as much, plus the talk, I just wonder if she has just turned him from me.
I am starting to feel invisible, don't see him much, etc.
I don't know if an 8 year old can see through anything.
I am hanging on right now, in pain, hoping something will change.
But really, if I am to be turned against or just basically be ignored by my grandson, then I'm not sure if I even want to try to avoid total estrangement anyway.
I hope somehow this will reverse. I know it's too late with my daughter and that carries enough pain but the one thing that was making it all worth it was my grandson.
He even used to admonish his grandpa (my husband) when he would say something negative about what I was doing, he literally stood up for me, would call my husband's judgements of my actions or words out.
Nothing horrific, just the daily assumptions that I was not doing things the way I was "supposed" to according to my husband.
Neither of my kids in their entire lives stood up like that to him. So my grandson really won my favor and we were close but now my daughter has ruined that for me.
It's like I'm not allowed to be loved without someone else coming along and spoiling it for me....
I'm pretty down about it. I just hope somehow I'll get back in favor with my grandson again one of these days.
If not I'm pretty done with my family, maybe even my husband. Maybe not my son, though, he does seem to still want to be in my life and care.
My grandson means so much to me; he took to me early on and always defended me, loved to spend time with me and cuddle, give me hugs, like he still does now, but not with me.
I lost her. I don't' want to lose him. Not sure what I can do.
He is only 8 but that's what I'm afraid of, very impressionable, I think, at that age.
So, not only do people seem to want me not to be loved, if I am, then it must be stopped, but also, I am always like Smileless2012 said, the scapegoat when other family in my life misbehave.
This is very, very depressing to me. Makes me wonder why I wanted to have a family to start with, what's the point?
Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.
Why doesn't that surprise me.
What do you mean by caught posting under a completely different name? Sometimes posters leave GN and when they come back are unable to use the name they had before.
Providing this isn't done because they were banned, as far as I'm aware this is allowed.
looking where he was looking, positioning my face in his line of sight
I think this is possibly making him uncomfortable?
I agree NotSpaghetti. It's better to interact with him on his terms Starfire.
Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.
Sorry InRainbows - that last message wasn’t specifically for you!
You said you were stepping away. I did too, but I went back to see how things had transpired and, finding nothing had changed, got sucked back in again. To be honest, I have never read posts like it!
'So, not only do people seem to want me not to be loved, if I am, then it must be stopped, but also, I am always like Smileless2012 said, the scapegoat when other family in my life misbehave.'
Where did this come from?
I can't see that anyone has said you shouldn't be loved, but refusing to take on board anything that your daughter has said, or admit your failings in not protecting her from abuse, will not repair the relationship.
Also, she isn't poisoning her son against you, she is protecting him from someone who didn't protect her. The best way to repair this relationship is to seek counselling of your own, and have an open and honest conversation with your daughter where you are not defensive, admit the harm she has been caused, and your part in it, and seek forgiveness.
Of course GN and especially the estrangement forum is the place for anyone to come to when they're struggling with family problems Crossstitchfan.
No one is forcing you or anyone else to read this thread so why not leave it to those who are happy to respond and try to help the OP?
This is only a thought starfire could it be that the more you try to force your grandson to look at you, speak to you etc etc it’s making him uncomfortable and maybe he’s going home and saying Nans behaving weird she said I ve got to look her in the eye, then his mum will say well you don’t need to do that, and so it goes on …eight is an age when they are heading up to want to prove a point The whole scenarios is getting weirder and you re getting more upset You must let it all rest and die down. Surely that would be the best way. please don’t take this the wrong way I m being honest as I see it. You are acting like a victim…. ‘poor me, no one likes me’ It’s not attractive or a good role model for your lad
Give it all a rest when the lad comes over do something nice with him, take him to the park, out on his bike or whatever he likes doing, have a game of football with him in the garden go to the pool, but do some normal fun stuff and stop the control trying to make him like you, look at you, talk to you …….that’s control. I understand where it comes from you feel out of control and it’s scary but calm down, relax and hopefully it will improve
BlueBelle eight is an age when they are heading up to want to prove a point. I agree, eights can be difficult, perhaps wait quietly.
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Smileless2012
Of course GN and especially the estrangement forum is the place for anyone to come to when they're struggling with family problems Crossstitchfan.
No one is forcing you or anyone else to read this thread so why not leave it to those who are happy to respond and try to help the OP?
But she refuses to be helped! That is so frustrating and makes me wonder why I am wasting my precious time on her when she doesn’t want to hear anything she hasn’t come up with herself! But if you want to waste your time flogging a dead horse, then good for you! I have better things to do!
I have better things to do so why are you still reading and posting Crossstichfan?
I really think it would help to show your daughter this thread OP.
Then she could see how you see the situation from your side.
Smileless2012
What do you mean by caught posting under a completely different name? Sometimes posters leave GN and when they come back are unable to use the name they had before.
Providing this isn't done because they were banned, as far as I'm aware this is allowed.
Yes, thank you. I was not banned. I did leave for awhile.
So, still ignoring my suggestion OP.
Why?
Could it be that your daughter may have a different version?
BlueBelle
This is only a thought starfire could it be that the more you try to force your grandson to look at you, speak to you etc etc it’s making him uncomfortable and maybe he’s going home and saying Nans behaving weird she said I ve got to look her in the eye, then his mum will say well you don’t need to do that, and so it goes on …eight is an age when they are heading up to want to prove a point The whole scenarios is getting weirder and you re getting more upset You must let it all rest and die down. Surely that would be the best way. please don’t take this the wrong way I m being honest as I see it. You are acting like a victim…. ‘poor me, no one likes me’ It’s not attractive or a good role model for your lad
Give it all a rest when the lad comes over do something nice with him, take him to the park, out on his bike or whatever he likes doing, have a game of football with him in the garden go to the pool, but do some normal fun stuff and stop the control trying to make him like you, look at you, talk to you …….that’s control. I understand where it comes from you feel out of control and it’s scary but calm down, relax and hopefully it will improve
Thank you for advice. I don't want to control what he does but he is doing things so uncharacteristic since all the talk from his mom, like not looking at me while talking; avoidance it what it is.
I simply pointed it out to him, I didn't tell him he had to look at me, I said hey, are you talking to me because you are looking somewhere else, so I wasn't sure........
He just said oh, yeah, I was and looked at me. I was smiling, too, didn't want him to feel bad about it. Because after all, it's not his fault.
I wish I could do nice things with him. My daughter limits time and if I am one minute away from her and granddaughter, she comes running into the room to see what is going on.
I have toys in the room and sometimes he goes in looking for stuff, which is also some of it is out of reach, so I go in to see and like I said, not much time passes before she comes in saying what's going on??
He's wanted to stay in the room to play (moving a lot of toys to the living area is tedious) but she insists he cannot. I think she wants to make sure I don't have any real time with him.
My daughter has insisted we play in front of her, in the living area, even when my granddaughter decides to join us.
She does not allow me any time alone with him to do anything, except when the weather is good and we go outside, she doesn't usually follow all the time , instead will stay inside to crochet or play a video game with my son.
Since her husband left she became very controlling of how much time and where I am allowed to interact with my grandson.
Also, even up to a couple months ago, he would ask me to play with him, now suddenly he asks his sister and when she says no, he doesn't ask me and starts to play on his own. One time when she said yes, he said I couldn't play at all with them.
Again, this is a stark difference in a short time. This last couple months I found out my daughter has been saying I don't allow her to buy him Christmas gifts because she thinks I bought too much or she doesn't know what I bought so she can't decide.
She has not asked me once about what I bought this year or how much. I actually hadn't bought alot this year, as kids get older they already have a lot anyway. In the past I did buy a lot but back then she didn't seem to care about it other than the first Christmas after the breakup she complained.
After that, nothing. Now she actually demonized and degraded my gift giving to him.
She rewards him for good behavior at school with toys all the time...no wonder she comes up short with ideas at Christmas and of course I cannot give him a toy for anything in between.
Controlling gift giving, controlling the time with grandkids, I looked up a couple things and those are hallmark in Grandparent Alienation.
MarieElla
So, still ignoring my suggestion OP.
Why?
Could it be that your daughter may have a different version?
Sorry, did not mean to ignore exactly. Because see, I've laid this out to her already, all the stuff here.
And I got called paranoid, accusatory, she even threw in I attacked her, her friends (notice the plural, but I've never had one issue with any of her other friends, at all in fact they are nice people) and even attacked the grandkids....total fabrication ........as I would never blame them for one adverse action, ever, because I know where the ideas/instructions are coming from.
So showing her all this would be completely, utterly a waste. And I'm so tired of engaging with her, as no matter what my feelings are and what she's done, she will divert it back to me, her childhood or even my mother's personality, oddly because I've always taken after my dad.
But why not? Throw the book at me for what she's done, what her husband did, my husband did, etc....
I was an abused child, my late mother was a narcissist and denied I had ever been abused, she told people I was a liar.
So I was never believed.
When I reached adulthood she tried to control and abuse me but I was getting wise to the NPD.
She could no longer win so she told people I abused her!
There is always two sides to the story.
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