Gransnet forums

Estrangement

Near Estrangment but confused about something

(230 Posts)
Starfire57 Mon 22-Dec-25 04:04:15

I have been having issues with my daughter ever since her husband left her. And she has a best friend, since high school, who claims she was abused. I don't know if that is true or not, but, seems my daughter talks a lot about and has now claimed she was an abused child.

She even is starting to make my grandkids think I am not safe in some way or was a bad parent/grandparent. They told me and it suck that the oldest one seems to believe it. The youngest told me she doesn't believe it.

Anyway, this is complete fabrication and I am thought maybe the best friend has been projecting her childhood onto my daughter.

My confusion is, when I offered to discuss the alledged abuse, she got mad that I didn't believe or acknowledge she was abused.

I went mad trying to get just ONE example. Just ONE. A long message conversation with me offering to talk in person or at least give one example on the messages.

She kept ranting about me and how I act, called me psychotic if I am called out on something.

Well, I have recently been deciding when she does say something very untrue to me, I don't agree with her. I've always been more of a silent person when attacked, will just leave the room, ignore it, etc. but lately I decided to at least basically defend myself like most people would.

Not arguing, just saying yeah no that's not true kinda thing. No big deal. That's now psychotic in her view.

Anyway my question is, has anyone here had an experience that when you ask about abuse, with the tone of if I did something I will apologize kinda thing, that then the adult child avoids, attacks and basically never tell you what you did?

It's completely maddening. You feel so hurt yet you are trying to understand by getting an answer. It's looney.

So finally, she mentioned children need to feel safe. I had a husband who yelled at me all the time. I thought ok, so maybe she was scared of him?

That's reasonable I think with a young child. But that's not abuse if I didn't know she was scared at times. Most the time she was always smiling. I can't read minds.

I told her if just once she told me she was scared, I may have tried to help her. But not knowing her feelings isn't abuse, it's lack of knowledge.

No matter, I told her I had no idea, that what she said was valid. Yet she still insisted she was abused and she said I won't accept it.

Again, how can you accept what exactly?

Don't kids know what happened?

I read about Mackalay Culkin and his story about his dad slapping him across the face and how Culkin said he had no bed to sleep on while his dad had a large comfy bed, etc.

He had examples of abuse.

What is the deal when an adult child can give no examples?

No clues? and the idea when you say you are ready to listen anyway, they don't want to talk or they avoid/distract with their opinions of your behaviors rather than on the subject of the abuse?

It got to the point of so many horrid accusations of abuse, again, using only the word abuse, even saying I do it with my grandchildren (too many hugs? idk?)

Now I am worried this will end badly. I did acknowledge her fear as a kid. But this is kinda nuts. Anyone who knows what this is, give me a clue.

I feel like the best friend projected so much of her own childhood now that my daughter thinks it's hers. I mean, she's known the friend for decades but seems now that her husband took off on her leaving her a single mom with 2 kids, it seems now something is seriously wrong. A couple of years ago, when her husband first left, she talked alot about her friend helping abused kids, and there was a predator defense protocol that the friend told her about for kids.

She used it one day to throw me out after I teared up a little when she yelled at me.

I never asked her why she used that. But she's a grown adult.

It's mental.

Does anyone know what this is?

Grams2five Fri 02-Jan-26 06:06:27

And what you are failing to grasp, or. More likely refusing to accept is that you are , in this case both the victim and a silent perpetrator. It was your job to protect your children from growing up in an abusive household. You failed to do so. I apprecIte that as a victim also that was a hard place for you to stand up for them but you still should have. Even now you continue to remain with the person who rendered their home abusive jor to even acknowledge , accept and attempt to apologize for your failure to protect. Of course your daughter is allowed to have feelings about that. What’s more she’s right to protect her own children from exposure to those who might fault to protect them as well

Madgran77 Fri 02-Jan-26 09:06:09

*I am not sure if all that applies since I was the one being verbally abused . She has no abuse memories to start with to repress.
Even if me being yelled at all the time scared her, that isn't abuse. It isn't great to witness, but it isn't abuse upon her.*

You have a very very narrow understanding of abuse I'm afraid especially on a child. I hope you find answers but I am not sure you will find them on this thread

Unity Fri 02-Jan-26 09:08:02

The op was a victim of her husband, but her daughter was a victim as well. Growing up in a home where a child witnesses abuse is itself abusive.

Unity Fri 02-Jan-26 09:11:58

'While yes things were not great the way I was treated, the idea I allowed or did any kind of abuse to the kids I loved more than anyone or anything is sickening to me and so far from the truth its almost laughable.'

But you did. Inadvertently no doubt, but you allowed your child to grow up in an environment where abuse was present, and are still with the abuser. That is what is a called an ACE (Adverse Childhood Experience) and can be very damaging to children.
I agree that therapy would be really useful for you, to come to terms with what happened and begin to see things from your daughter's point of view).

Starfire57 Fri 02-Jan-26 09:51:17

Unity

The op was a victim of her husband, but her daughter was a victim as well. Growing up in a home where a child witnesses abuse is itself abusive.

Yes, if it is abusive that's on my husband for not shutting his big mouth.

Starfire57 Fri 02-Jan-26 09:57:03

Unity

'While yes things were not great the way I was treated, the idea I allowed or did any kind of abuse to the kids I loved more than anyone or anything is sickening to me and so far from the truth its almost laughable.'

But you did. Inadvertently no doubt, but you allowed your child to grow up in an environment where abuse was present, and are still with the abuser. That is what is a called an ACE (Adverse Childhood Experience) and can be very damaging to children.
I agree that therapy would be really useful for you, to come to terms with what happened and begin to see things from your daughter's point of view).

I have already apologized for the past. But she won't let it go. I think when I told her about my grandkids saying she told them I was bad , she got caught being what they call toxic to little kids and decided to scapegoat that onto her childhood. A diversion, a denial, claimed my grandson just interpreted stuff as "bad" but he used that word and so did his sister. Then she proceeded to say she wouldn't put up with paranoia, as though I only imagined they sai that? Cmon..
that's gaslighting folks. I am old but not stupid.

MarieElla Fri 02-Jan-26 09:58:04

So why are you still with him?

Starfire57 Fri 02-Jan-26 10:23:34

MarieElla

So why are you still with him?

I am too old to start over and at least we are not contributing to the back and forth houses the kids have to visit due to divorce. No need for another. But now my husband sees the part he played in this, granted the friend and husband really are to blame, but, his attitude didn't help! Now he's working on it.

But he can't fix it.

I asked him how come 6 years ago I was considered a great mom by her, she loved going places with me and grandson, and thought I was a super cool Gma, if I was this paranoid predatory abuser all along?

Gee, what happened to all that for 37 years, up until 6 years ago?

Starfire57 Fri 02-Jan-26 10:28:49

Well, thanks to some of you for support and I was ust looking for other examples.

I guess this isn't a problem anyone can solve really, unless they know some sure fire way of deprogramming someone from outside influences.. But doubtful.

keepingquiet Fri 02-Jan-26 10:31:13

This is very sad.
I don't have any answers I'm afraid, but I would be tempted to accept that parents aren't perfect and apologise for making her feel unsafe.
Then see where that goes.
There is so much pressure on parents these days to appear to be prefect that they often don't realise that isolating their children is just another form of abuse.

Unity Fri 02-Jan-26 11:09:31

Are you willing to accept any responsibility at all for the way your daughter is feeling? Why do you talk of deprogramming? This seems like a pretty typical response to growing up in an abusive household.

Smileless2012 Fri 02-Jan-26 12:00:38

If you'd read not just the OP but Starfire's other posts Unity, you would see the concern she's expressed about her D's close friend. You would also see that she has apologised for the past but these aren't the only things we've been told.

Her D is telling her children that their GM is a bad person, and her attempts to address the issues her D has have been met with accusations of paranoia, and a refusal to try joint counselling/therapy which may be beneficial to them both.

Why does any woman stay with an abusive husband/partner MarieElla? I have no idea but many do and she's already explained why she didn't leave when the children were young.

Your situation with your D is solvable Starfire if you are both willing to at least try to come to terms with what has happened, and find a way forward with your relationship.

Your D also needs to try and come to terms with the ending of her marriage. As DiamondLily posted earlier marriages break down and your D needs to be considering the impact this has had on her children, not just herself. She also needs to keep this separate from any issues she has with you; you are not responsible for her husband's abandonment.

InRainbows Fri 02-Jan-26 14:55:01

Growing up in a household where abuse is happening is child abuse. It can cause long term mental health issues. I feel comforted that your daughter has help and support through this in her friend who understands the different forms abuse takes.

Starfire If you cannot make this situation better for yourself and leave it, perhaps let your daughter go from it. She cannot heal while you continue to deny the truth and place the blame elsewhere. Some of your comments are concerning in themselves on how you speak of your daughter, her support system and your grandchildren too. I wish I had been your friend in the early days of your marriage, I would have done for you what your daughter's friend is doing for her.

Don't let it be too late for her. Don't let her normalise abuse and allow that to mean she may choose unsafe relationships and her children, your grandchildren, go through what she did.

Crossstitchfan Fri 02-Jan-26 23:08:52

Starfire57

Well, thanks to some of you for support and I was ust looking for other examples.

I guess this isn't a problem anyone can solve really, unless they know some sure fire way of deprogramming someone from outside influences.. But doubtful.

I can’t believe that after all this time you are still on here banging on about how shamefully you believe you have been treated. You have been given loads of advice, by many of us, which you have ignored.
May I suggest that, instead of going on and on over the same grievance, you take the advice and try and turn your life around.
There is a limit to how many times we can re-phrase the advice in the hope you might see sense and act on it.
I wish you well but much of this is down to you!

Crossstitchfan Fri 02-Jan-26 23:13:36

Allsorts

I am sorry to say I think this post is not genuine it is purely to disrupt.

I tend to agree now I have come back and read it again today.

Starfire57 Fri 02-Jan-26 23:16:26

keepingquiet

This is very sad.
I don't have any answers I'm afraid, but I would be tempted to accept that parents aren't perfect and apologise for making her feel unsafe.
Then see where that goes.
There is so much pressure on parents these days to appear to be prefect that they often don't realise that isolating their children is just another form of abuse.

I can try that.....again. I've done that, but I guess another try wouldn't hurt. Thanks.

It is just so untruthful, most of this. Like I said, she was around for some of it, but we are not talking about the kind of shouting matches one might imagine, like in the movies or a TV special.

Short, loud bursts of "Why did you leave the light on in there" and "Are you that stupid?" Or "you are a liar" or "You had better call them in the morning and fix it" Or "stop talking" etc.......many angry insults hurled at me.

There were no shouting matches; I was not scared for my safety, no calling the police, etc.

This was abusive, degrading attitude towards me. I'm the victim.

I never fought back. It never escalated. I would go off and cry; not in front of my kids.

Not one time did my kids express or even look like they were in distress. If they had been, I would have done something.

I should have done something about it for my own sake. I didn't realize how impressionable kids are.

However, I had a great relationship with both of them; one even my MIL commented on.

Except for that last year of high school with my daughter, when she became best friends to this girl. But I just chalked it up to teen stuff.

And it got better anyway. The friend moved to another state. My daughter and I were like best friends for years.

This went on all the way up until her husband left. The best friend has been in constant contact with my daughter; has come to visit her several times and my daughter visited her too. The friend got her degree and works with abused children.

Coincidence?

The question remains, why was I a good mom and grandma just 6 years ago, from my own daughters mouth and my son in law, and now I am an abusive bad mom and grandma??

How does that magic work?

InRainbows Fri 02-Jan-26 23:24:22

I'm walking away from this now, sometimes people can't be helped

Starfire57 Fri 02-Jan-26 23:38:18

Smileless2012

If you'd read not just the OP but Starfire's other posts Unity, you would see the concern she's expressed about her D's close friend. You would also see that she has apologised for the past but these aren't the only things we've been told.

Her D is telling her children that their GM is a bad person, and her attempts to address the issues her D has have been met with accusations of paranoia, and a refusal to try joint counselling/therapy which may be beneficial to them both.

Why does any woman stay with an abusive husband/partner MarieElla? I have no idea but many do and she's already explained why she didn't leave when the children were young.

Your situation with your D is solvable Starfire if you are both willing to at least try to come to terms with what has happened, and find a way forward with your relationship.

Your D also needs to try and come to terms with the ending of her marriage. As DiamondLily posted earlier marriages break down and your D needs to be considering the impact this has had on her children, not just herself. She also needs to keep this separate from any issues she has with you; you are not responsible for her husband's abandonment.

I thank you once again. You are correct. This whole thing finds me crying or angry and I'm tired of it.

I think too, my problem is, I know all I would have to do is agree with her and say I'm sorry. But it's not the truth, and if I admit an untruth, how would it be for me then, if that untruth was still in fact used against me? But the difference then would be, it becomes true and she would be justified.

That's the thing, if I admit an untruth, it becomes the truth. I'm not sure that's the right thing to do.

I have tried apologizing anyway. It is almost like she wants an admission to be justified in her actions towards me and the grandkids. Apologies aren't accepted; only admission to the lies, which like I said, I would almost do if I thought it would help..

In fact, that's why I spent an entire afternoon texting her and earnestly asking for examples, so I might address them, explain and then apologize if necessary.

She couldn't give me anything, and that's what led to my original posting because it was so maddening not to get one answer, that I wondered how many other parents get this sort of frustration in communicating with their kids!

Thank you for your thoughtful answers to all this.

I'm really not sure what to do. I sure wish I had a clue as to what was happening when it was happening. Hindsight isn't that helpful now.

Crossstitchfan Sat 03-Jan-26 01:01:41

PLEASE can you give this a rest now? There is surely nothing else to be said and you are just coming out with the same old stuff, on and on and on.
Looking at the posts, I can see that I am not the only one getting a bit bored with the constant variations on the original theme. When you reply, it’s not just a line or two, it’s paragraph after paragraph saying the same thing in different ways. If there is a drastic change, please tell us by all means. Otherwise perhaps you could take a bit of a break for a while and get yourself together.
This is meant kindly.

Allsorts Sat 03-Jan-26 07:04:54

Well said Crossstitch but I cannot see her letting go, you can see how exhausting it must be. The only ways is no response.

MarieElla Sat 03-Jan-26 08:50:04

How about showing your daughter this post?
It sounds drastic but it may bring you clarity.

MarieElla Sat 03-Jan-26 08:50:22

*this thread, rather.

Smileless2012 Sat 03-Jan-26 09:21:04

People don't have to read Starfire's posts and don't have to respond if they don't want too so if anyone's bored with this thread, there are plenty of other threads to go on.

You do appear to be banging your head against a brick wall at the moment Starfire so I suggest that you take a break from contacting your D and wait for her to contact you.

You now know that the shouting that went on impacted negatively on her childhood and I think I'm right in thinking that you've apologised for this, so it's time for a line to be drawn under this. If she's not prepared to accept your apology there's nothing more you can do.

Regarding other accusations, if you believe them to be unfounded, the best course of action is to talk about where these have come from; why does she believe things happened when you're convinced they never did. Doing so is not simply dismissing what she's saying, on the contrary it demonstrates your concern that she has these 'memories' and could show you that something you'd never considered, or even forgotten about did indeed occur.

I do believe though that the best course of action is to take a step back and wait for her to contact you and also wait for her to raise anything from her past, rather than asking her to do so.

NotSpaghetti Sat 03-Jan-26 09:54:13

my problem is, I know all I would have to do is agree with her and say I'm sorry

My advice - do this then.
Take responsibility for her pain and be sincere. You now know your lack of protection negativity affected her... If it is your wish to reconcile please keep saying it until you believe yourself.

Wishing you well.
Good luck.

DiamondLily Sat 03-Jan-26 16:22:22

I might be missing something here, but why would abuse victims (mother and daughter) in this case be apologising to each other?

Surely it should only be the abuser (father, husband) that needs to apologise?

Victim blaming isn’t good. 🤷‍♀️