Forums for estranged adult children

DogWhisperer

In my previous life I used to be a lawyer, and I learned very early on that if you go into court thinking your client is whiter than white and the other side is blacker than black, you are likely to come out of court thinking something rather different! Of course there are two sides to every story, but unfortunately I don't think the youngsters on the estranged kids' forums have got that memo yet.

Purplepixie, I feel for you because we are in the same position. Six years ago, our daughter estranged herself without warning and without giving a reason, and she has only communicated with us once in all that time, which was to ask for her passport (which we sent her).

My heart goes out to you both

I know I can be a difficult human at times, too quick to make blunt comments when I should stay quiet, my DM was the same and that didn’t make for a completely harmonious relationship.

I know have two AD who can be extremely challenging and still living at home.

There’s always another side and as our dear late Queen stated “one’s recollections may differ”

There is nothing inherently bad about sharing your experiences online in an anonymous forum. I have once again looked at that forum today and found no issues with what the users are doing.

It seems like an incredibly large forum in general with that topic actually having relatively few visitors and so not unbelievable that they all had abusive parents or were unhappy in the relationship

Looking further there are also much larger topics for those with abusive marriages that use much the same language. Are we to judge them in the same way? Or would that be easier to do if we felt a marriage partner had left the relationship unfairly?

I think it is really important to take these situations on their own merit, so we can be there fully for our own friends and family if they experience similar troubles without inserting our own pain into it instead.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

That's very interesting IA not the link as I wont be opening it, but that it's about children being raised by narcissists. I'm guessing you find parents being labelled acceptable even though in the previous link you provided, if parents label their children as narcissists it isn't.

Do you have any comments regarding my post @ 11.27 and DogWhisperer's post @ 10.33?

I feel like it's only natural to be biased towards the child due to the inherent power imbalance in a parent/child relationship.

For starters, the child never consented to be in the relationship in the first place.

Possibly natural but not helpful for a sensible discussion when the bias is so apparent.

IssendaiAcolyte

I feel like it's only natural to be biased towards the child due to the inherent power imbalance in a parent/child relationship.

For starters, the child never consented to be in the relationship in the first place.

"The child never consented to be in the relationship in the first place" is a familiar talking point on EAC forums, and is often alternatively expressed as "We didn't ask to be born, therefore we don't owe our parents anything". It's also a thought-stopping cliché, rather like "It is what it is" or "Everything happens for a reason", which are generally used to end conversations or maintain control in arguments.

You might be interested in the following discussion of the phrase on The Philosophy Forum:

www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/we-didnt-ask-to-be-born-therefore-we-dont-owe-our-parents-anything/422

Most of the philosophers were not amused. Still, it is what it is...

Summerlove

*and kids are encouraged to estrange for even the most trivial reasons. "My parents voted for Donald Trump" is a common one*

First of all these are adults. Not kids, not children. Adults.
Secondly, someone who voted for Donald Trump and I do not have the same values or morals, so family or not I would certainly distance myself from them emotionally. Hardly trivial.

Regarding swearing, if it’s allowed on a forum, who cares? Not swearing doesn’t make someone a better more moral person.

Your second point.
Crumbs.
If I started distancing myself from a person who voted differently from me, family or not, that would lessen the amount of loving people in my life considerably. No thanks.

last sentence.
Yes it does!

IssendaiAcolyte

I feel like it's only natural to be biased towards the child due to the inherent power imbalance in a parent/child relationship.

For starters, the child never consented to be in the relationship in the first place.

No to that as well.

I dont think I agree with bias on anything in life.

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Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

As you've posted DogWhisperer we didn't ask to be born etc is a familiar statement from EAC. An interesting link to the Philosophy Forum.

So IA, if parents play a huge role in whether or not their child is a narcissist, why do we not see any EAC who claim their parents are narcissists, accepting that they themselves maybe a narcissist too which may have contributed to them estranging?

Should those AC be concerned that in turn they may play a huge role in their own children being a narcissist or are we to believe/assume that they somehow magically avoid doing so?

What about the d.i.l. for example who claims one or both of her in laws is a narcissist; does that mean that she has inadvertently married a narcissist?

I hope for the sake of those AC who don't believe they owe their parents anything, regardless of how good those parents have been, that they can 'take it on the chin' if their children feel the same way about them.

Those concerns do exist in that forum. Wouldn't it be so much better to support the victims of abuse instead of questioning them. As a mother myself I believe I am owed nothing back. I had children because I wanted to and felt they would enrich my life. For what reason did others have children?

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there likely won't even be anything to "take on the chin" as they fostered a loving and healthy home for their children but that isn't a guarantee of not being estranged is it IA.

Not all who estrange came from dysfunctional, abusive, toxic family environments due to narcissistic parents.

Interesting that you say most children of narcissists have a hyper-fragile ego as that is a narcissistic trait which as well as not providing coping mechanisms to deal with being imperfect and/or making mistakes, is also a core feature of a covert or vulnerable narcissist.

Of course it's better to support victim of abuse InRainbows; asking questions is not being unsupportive.

Our reasons for having children was the same as yours and I would think for the majority of parents.

IssendaiAcolyte

fancythat

Summerlove

and kids are encouraged to estrange for even the most trivial reasons. "My parents voted for Donald Trump" is a common one

First of all these are adults. Not kids, not children. Adults.
Secondly, someone who voted for Donald Trump and I do not have the same values or morals, so family or not I would certainly distance myself from them emotionally. Hardly trivial.

Regarding swearing, if it’s allowed on a forum, who cares? Not swearing doesn’t make someone a better more moral person.

Your second point.
Crumbs.
If I started distancing myself from a person who voted differently from me, family or not, that would lessen the amount of loving people in my life considerably. No thanks.

last sentence.
Yes it does!

Swearing is part of the natural English language, it can be used to accurately convey strong feelings and emotions (like the everlasting pain of unfortunately being born to adults who utterly betrayed or foregone their parental duties).

Voting for Hitleresque figures is not natural or normal and is absolutely immoral. Reducing it to a simple "difference in voting" is not a good-faith argument. It's not a difference of opinion about tax policy anymore; it's now whether entire groups of people deserve to live freely or not.

Swearing - anti Bible. Hence immoral.

And now, in your second paragraph, you have equated "wrong" voting to immorality.
That is not against the Bible!

No idea where you get your moral values from.
It isnt the Bible and God.
You appear to have made them up.

Children don't owe their parents anything for many reasons.

Oh they do.
Very much so. Again, Biblical.

I dont recognise your name on this forum.
So think I will leave things there.

Sorry, I don't believe in made up fairy tales for grown ups, especially not as an authority on morality.

If you require a 2000 year old book to figure out morality than I will do my version of praying for you.

Why do you think fancythat requires a 2000 year old book to figure out morality IA?

Smileless2012

^there likely won't even be anything to "take on the chin" as they fostered a loving and healthy home for their children^ but that isn't a guarantee of not being estranged is it IA.

Not all who estrange came from dysfunctional, abusive, toxic family environments due to narcissistic parents.

Interesting that you say most children of narcissists have a hyper-fragile ego as that is a narcissistic trait which as well as not providing coping mechanisms to deal with being imperfect and/or making mistakes, is also a core feature of a covert or vulnerable narcissist.

Of course it's better to support victim of abuse InRainbows; asking questions is not being unsupportive.

Our reasons for having children was the same as yours and I would think for the majority of parents.

"Our reasons for having children was the same as yours and I would think for the majority of parents."

Rainbows was disagreeing with the majority opinion (see DogWhisperer and fancythat) that children owe something to their parents.

I answered InRainbows question which was For what reasons did others have children IA.

Smileless2012

Why do you think fancythat requires a 2000 year old book to figure out morality IA?

Are we in the same reality, on the same forum, on the same thread, reading the same posts? If so, I'm confused by your reasoning, or lack thereof.

fancythat verbatim said:

"No idea where you get your moral values from.
It isnt the Bible and God.
You appear to have made them up."

Which directly implies that her sole source for morality is the bible, which is a 2000 year old book. Is that not clear?