How do I help my sister to stop feeling like a victim?

If it's not narcissism, you can't deny that it's some sort of severe personality disorder. But it is most definitely narcissism

It is clasdic behaviour of someone totally lost and devastated and not thinking straight. Yup she might have personality disorder or narcissism or whatever OR she might just be getting it wrong on bow to cope!! 🙄

You're welcome icanhandthemback. I hope you can find a way to protect yourself because if you don't, you wont be able to give the help and support she needs and you clearly want to be able to provide.

I agree Madgran it's difficult to think straight if you're feeling totally lost and devastated in fact, it's difficult to be able to think at all.

Madgran77

*If it's not narcissism, you can't deny that it's some sort of severe personality disorder. But it is most definitely narcissism*

It is clasdic behaviour of someone totally lost and devastated and not thinking straight. Yup she might have personality disorder or narcissism or whatever OR she might just be getting it wrong on bow to cope!! 🙄

Well, how do you think she ended up estranged to begin with?

It wasn't by being a loving, considerate, mature mother. I can tell you that much.

Well, how do you think she ended up estranged to begin with? It wasn't by being a loving, considerate, mature mother. I can tell you that much

You cannot make that assumption

Madgran77

*Well, how do you think she ended up estranged to begin with? It wasn't by being a loving, considerate, mature mother. I can tell you that much*

You cannot make that assumption

Sometimes children have their own problems which may not have been caused by the parents. Maybe the children grow up to be Borderline Personality, Bipolar, or have mental health issues which they may not be able to help but can reap havoc on their relationship with their parents.

That's true icanhandthemback. We've seen examples here on GN over the years and I've seen them on EP forums I've been on.

Taking the OP's situation out of the equation as it doesn't apply, there are of course situations where the AC or their husband/wife/partner has issues which as you say can reap havoc on their relationships with their parents.

I would err on the side of caution here. I agree with Madgran, this sister may be a narcissist but on the other hand she could just be coping really badly with this estrangement. Of course is easy to blame her and certainly she has not endeared herself to anyone due to her attitude but she could just desperately need help and is burying her head in the sand with regard to this.
Would ask InRainbows if her sister was difficult before the estrangement? Or if this only happened once she was estranged?

Maybe the neice is the narcissist not the sister. Nobody knows the full story of why so nobody can know for certain. Narcissists are very clever at hiding it for ages.

Ya ok, sure, but what does the niece stand to gain by becoming an orphan?

And you already have a lot of narcissistic behavior present with the sister.

This is honestly a delusional take.

It's a good example of why banding about labels of narcissism is unhelpful and unproductive.

Talking about a personal experience of someone you believe to be a narcissist is one thing, but labelling someone you've never met as one is pointless.

PoppySeadBread

Ya ok, sure, but what does the niece stand to gain by becoming an orphan?

And you already have a lot of narcissistic behavior present with the sister.

This is honestly a delusional take.

This is a bit of an antagonistic reply to someone who is just giving their opinion.
And afterall you also are just voicing your opinion, that is all it is, and all it can be on a forum where none of us ever know what is truly going on.
Also InRainbows has already posted that she doesn’t want any arguments, obviously she is under enough stress, so can we just consider this.

Not all opinions are equal. Some are based in reality, while this one was based in delusion.

What if someone had the opinion that a coconut fell on the niece's head, and that's why she chose to estrange her lovely mother. Just because it's an opinion like any other, are we now going to question if the niece spent time under any palm trees recently?

I’ve come back to this post. Yes I understand inrainbows totally.

Actually, I'm now of the opinion that InRainbows might be the narcissist. You honestly can never know with narcissism, so let's not rule out that possibility.

I have been thinking about it. Not long ago I might have just said that my sister is high strung and not easy to please. She was not nice to me in childhood. I suppose I have always worked hard to keep the peace. I certainly don't like how I am being treated now that I am not doing as she wishes because I want to keep contact with my niece and don't feel it is right to punish her or take messages from my sister.

PoppySeadBread

Not all opinions are equal. Some are based in reality, while this one was based in delusion.

What if someone had the opinion that a coconut fell on the niece's head, and that's why she chose to estrange her lovely mother. Just because it's an opinion like any other, are we now going to question if the niece spent time under any palm trees recently?

That is disingenuous. And seeing as you are determined to be right in this instance I will leave you to it, and imagine InRainbows and other posters may well do the same.

PoppySeadBread

Actually, I'm now of the opinion that InRainbows might be the narcissist. You honestly can never know with narcissism, so let's not rule out that possibility.

That's concerning after what I have read on the subject. I wouldn't ever want to come across that way.

InRainbows

PoppySeadBread

Actually, I'm now of the opinion that InRainbows might be the narcissist. You honestly can never know with narcissism, so let's not rule out that possibility.

That's concerning after what I have read on the subject. I wouldn't ever want to come across that way.

You do not come across that way.

I'm just using humor to point out the absurd logic behind the opinion that the niece might be a narcissist, and that that opinion is worthy of consideration just as much as my opinion.

Fallingstar

PoppySeadBread

Not all opinions are equal. Some are based in reality, while this one was based in delusion.

What if someone had the opinion that a coconut fell on the niece's head, and that's why she chose to estrange her lovely mother. Just because it's an opinion like any other, are we now going to question if the niece spent time under any palm trees recently?

That is disingenuous. And seeing as you are determined to be right in this instance I will leave you to it, and imagine InRainbows and other posters may well do the same.

I'm not determined to be right, I just am right. I'm sorry if logic and reason is a foreign concept to you.

I don't see any signs that my niece is that way, she is thoughtful and kind and very different to my sister. I do take on board that my sister may not be coping well with this or other situations too but I am concerned that she has not been a good parent. I didn't think much about how much time my niece spent with me growing up as anything other than being happy to spend time with her but now I am looking at it through a different lens.

I think I will come back to this. Please don't think I don't appreciate everyone trying to help but I need some time to process my thoughts.

InRainbows

I don't see any signs that my niece is that way, she is thoughtful and kind and very different to my sister. I do take on board that my sister may not be coping well with this or other situations too but I am concerned that she has not been a good parent. I didn't think much about how much time my niece spent with me growing up as anything other than being happy to spend time with her but now I am looking at it through a different lens.

I just want to say that your niece's decision to estrange did not come lightly. She must have went through a lot of pain, heartache and disappointment to finally come to the conclusion that the relationship with her mother is unsalvageable.

No-one wants to be an orphan, just as no-one wants to be blind, deaf or disabled. So children will try anything and everything to have a functional relationship with their parents. Cutting off a parent is only done as a last resort, after you have exhausted all other options.

Now with your sister, you are witnessing first-hand the kind of behavior that pushed your niece to estrange from her own mother. And keep in mind that kind of behavior is infinitely worse to endure as a child rather than a sibling.

Not only is there a natural power imbalance between a parent and child, but you are also denied proper parenting, which puts you at an incredible disadvantage in this world.

As someone with personal experience of being the sibling of someone who has fallen out with their offspring, I can say the shortest path to your peace here is likely disengagement. Even well-intentioned intervention or explanation can backfire quite easily. Ultimately your sister and her daughter are adults. Adults need to navigate their own relationships.

Your sister is upset and grasping for control by trying to control you in a sense. However, you are completely capable of carrying on a relationship with your niece without continuing to explain yourself to your sister. Engaging these conversations with her is signaling that her request is rational and therefore worthy of debate. It isn’t. You’ve already made it clear that you don’t discuss the conflict with your niece. Just reassure your sister that you love and care for her. Continue to be compassionate toward them both. Whether or not your sister accepts the reality here is up to your sister. You cannot force her to view this rationally any more than she can force you to stop seeing your niece. If I were you I’d redirect the conversation every single time. “Sister I love you both and will not choose between my family” or “I don’t feel comfortable discussing this anymore”. Change the topic. Rinse and repeat. You can’t “fix” your sister’s mentality. All you can do is ensure you don’t place yourself in the middle, making it worse.

i can understand how you feel, my sister fell out with my mum 5 years ago, her adult grandchildren and the great grandchildren have all been kept away from her, she was already enstranged from another daughter and i am the only one left, she still talks about but not as often, it has taken 5 years, the first year i would get up to 20 calls a day, going over the same thing again and again, i have health problems that leave me more or less housebound and in constant pain, i had to be straight with her and tell her that it has happened and unless she want's to go and talk to her she needs to leave it alone, she won't reach out to her as she keeps saying it was not her fault...knowing my mum i am not to sure about that. she is 83 and still fit and active, she drives and does her own shopping. she had to change her will so that i can sort everything including telling all that side of the family they are not welcome at the funeral. it is draining, is there any way you could talk to the daughter or is it a lost cause.

Perhaps your sister is simply highly strung and not easy to please InRainbows. I'd advise against you being led down a path that labels your sister as a narcissist by people who don't even know her.

Good grief it's even been suggested that your niece may be one and you too; the latter being explained away as humour .

She may not have been a good parent but as I said earlier on this thread, there's nothing you can do about now. Suggestions have been made about how you may handle this with your sister. Firmly and kindly telling her that you will continue your relationship with your niece; tell her you don't like the way she's treating you and why and then as suggested by BlessedArt tell her you no longer wish to discuss the matter with her and if she raises it, change the topic. This and for me BlessedArt's entire post is worthy of consideration.

FWIW I think you should put any thoughts about your sister being a narcissist, something you don't appear to have ever considered until it was raised here, at least to one side if not out of your mind altogether.

Will labelling her improve the situation? I don't think it will.