Long distance grandparenting gone horrible wrong

I meant the other person in the family situation, Greatnan - not any Tom, Dick or Harry. Of course only the people involved know the full story. That's the point - the other party in the story has their own point of view as well. Which we as outsiders will never know.

"only the people concerned know the full story"

Exactly.

It is difficult know when someone posts about family troubles on here, whether they want sympathy only, or something perhaps more constructive.

I wanted sympathy and mostly I got it, apart from one very unpleasant post - there is nothing constructive anyone can offer me. I also did not want people to think I was smug because I seem to have such an idyllic life - which I do, apart from this one terrible loss.
I am sure that is what Olivia expected too.
I think we should accept what members tell us - some of us are suffering enough heartache without having our stories questioned.

Sorry all.
I am with jo4 here. She makes sense.
The rest is waffle.

What is waffle, johanna? People expressing sympathy?

Of course there is always 2 sides to a story - but am deeply shocked about the level of cruelty shown by some here to someone who is hurting so much. What's wrong with a bit of caring and tlc. So sad,

Oliviasings, rise, rise above, and hope you find some peace soon.
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I think it is too early for Olivia to look dispassionately at the circumstances-sometimes it takes years to see why something occurred. She can analyse all she likes but she is blinded by too much emotion at the moment. Give her a break.

Very well put granjura, and I do hope you will find some peace oliviasings. Thank goodness for your son who obviously senses how much you are hurting at the moment and here is a virtual ((hug)) to add to the many more offered on here.

When they were young children I think that my son may have felt I favoured his sister being the only girl, but we talked about it then and I reassured him that Mam loved all of my children and he says today that he never worried about it after. It never occurred to me that my daughter may be jealous of her brother. He feels that she may be blaming me for her marriage, but to be fair she made her choices and never asked me if she should marry him 21 years ago. I love her so much and fear that I may have lost her forever.

I don't understand the insistence on their being two sides to every story. If a man beats his wife because she does not have his dinner ready on time, are there two sides to that story? I am willing to believe that Olivia has done everything she can to be a good loving mother and grandmother, as I have, and does not deserve the way she is being treated by her family.
I know of other couples who have got married abroad without inviting their parents, who had no idea of the reason. My nephew left my sister looking after his cats one weekend and came back on Sunday night and announced they had got married. He didn't invite any of his three brothers either. He has now cut off all contact without explanation, without any arguments even though my sister supported him for three years while he did a degree in his late 20s.
No doubt he has some motive for his cruel behaviour but it does not mean that his mother has done anything wrong.

Oh my what sad sad stories - so many people at logger heads with their children for various reasons. I couldn't bear being estranged from mine. I've had the odd row with each of them and one of us has flounced off into the other room. Never gone as far as some of these stories. As family [and having Irish blood] we tend to flare up, have a good row and that is the end of it. No sulking, no recriminations. Mind you none of my children have been drug users, long term use as we all know produces paranoid delusions. As Hildaw says Facebook has a lot to answer for. On the plus side I have been able to contact old friends via facebook and keep track on the goings on of other friends. However, I feel people post too much and that is how Olivia's family have been able to hurt her. I do hope you can all resolve your issues with your family.

I think some posts may have been misunderstood here. In no way was I suggesting that anyone had done anything wrong - not you, Greatnan, not oliviasings nor any other estranged parent. In suggesting that the view of the estranged child may be different from that of the parent is not pointing the finger of blame, just stating a possibility. This is obviously a very sensitive subject so I'll withdraw, but I wish all of you who are in this very sad position the best possible outcome.

I would like to thank everyone for discussing this post, I am not upset by any adverse comments. Everyone is entitled to air their views.But it has helped me to read what greatnan had to say. Thank you for sharing that you have been through something similar. When I felt so desperate in the small hours I just did not know where to turn and did not want to burden my son and upset him. He is a wonderful son and has been very supportive for the last ten years since my husband died. Thank you nightowl for my hug.I am so glad I joined this forum, it has helped to share this, even though it still hurts. Perhaps I was looking for sympathy, but more than anything I am trying to come to terms with something I just dont understand. Maybe it is too soon to make any sense of any of it. I know there are two sides to every story, I just wish my daughter could have talked to me and perhaps I could have helped her. Maybe I will never know.

oliviasings I am sorry to hear of your family troubles and the sadness you are experiencing just now.

I was a bit confused by one part of your post:

"I have not talked to my sons friend who has been like an extra grand son to me, he told my son because he did not want to hurt me,"

I am not certain what he told your son or what this is about or which son it refers to..America or local ... and how significant this is to the whole scenario?

Have you written to your daughter..via a private message on FB if you do not have a current address, to ask her to explain what exactly has hurt her so much to cause her to cut herself off and to say how much you love her?? I can only imagine your distress at this situation.

Stacks of sympathy from me olivia, I find your story very upsetting and it makes everything worse being so far away and not being able to fully comprehend her thinking. I think to have gone back and parted from her husband she must have been in turmoil when she was staying with you.I really don't think the real blame,on her part,is with you

Good night, Olivia, I hope you feel better in the morning. I get to sleep by playing some music - it stops my mind just going round and round in useless circles.

Good advice greatnan

It is totally unacceptable to remove legal documents from another's home, there are times when they will be required. I have had to provide birth and marriage certificates for insurance purposes. I would give the benefit of the doubt with photos, perhaps she wished to compile an album, but documents would cause me grave concern.

Agreed, harrigran - they could be used for identity fraud, for example.

oliviasings I am in a similar position to you and others on GN. I have a daughter who is estranged; she has two delightful children I no longer see and a third I've never met. It's hard and it hurts, but eventually I've come to accept that what cannot be changed must be endured - and I hope for a time in the future when things will be better. In my case there was no 'falling out', other things (still unknown to me) were going on in my daughter's life and she moved away overnight and left no forwarding address. I am able to send gifts and cards (through a third party) and I receive 'thank you' cards and very, very occasionally I get a phone call and am able to talk to her and my grandchildren.
My advice when dealing with your daughter is:
don't ask too many questions,
keep the lines of communication open if you can,
don't retaliate or get into a mud slinging contest,
try to hold on to the love you have for her
don't get drawn into discussing only her bad points - remember her good ones too.
My advice for you is to get support and comfort where you can and keep posting on here.
(((hugs)))

Excellent advice, Grannyactivist.
My eldest grand-daughter has asked me to ring her on Saturday evening.. She is the only one of the four children who accepts that her mother has paranoid delusions and is now being frozen out by her siblings because she is a 'traitor' for taking the side of her aunt and myself. I feel very sorry for her - she loves her mother but can see that a great injustice is being done. She is going to her cousin's wedding next month, in defiance of her mother's orders - the other three are not going, even though they have always been close to their cousins.
I am now worrying about what would happen if my daughter overdoses once too often and I am not there to support them.

Ah - I am glad she at least is in touch with you. Hard growing up for her.
You are having a big wobble I can tell. If anything happens like that the kids will call you. Remind yourself that they are adults and I expect when you were their age you coped with all sorts of things. Because most young people around 20 are still very much in their teenage phase these days does not mean that they can, if required, step up.
(think of what people of that age did on both wars if you need a distraction.)

Thanks, Jess. The eldest son is 28, but suffers from Aspergers and has not been able to get a job in spite of having an MSc in marine biology. The other son is 21 and also unemployed, other than a part-time job on a duck farm. I worry most about the youngest daughter, who is only 16.
The oldest girl, who is 24, is determined to take an OU degree and have a career. She wants to be a good role model for her two little girls. Her mother always told her that she did not need to bother with qualifications because she would always have a man to support her! Her fiance is a lovely young man and his parents are very supportive. I think the two of them would be able to help the others in any emergency but they shouldn't have these problems to cope with. She has always pictured the usual fairy-tale wedding, but now it will have to be very quiet as she cannot invite half her family - her mother has made it clear that if we go, she won't.
I wanted to be able to shield my grandchildren from the worst consequences of their mother's addiction but she has cut me off from them.

Reading your posts has been very helpful to me for the first time I see that there are many Grandparents who have this happen to them I too did not have a quarrel with my daughter, she just left. I love her and the children so much but I am clinging to the hope that one day when she is a grandmother she will know what she has sacrificed. I will never move home so she knows where I live. She lives in Canada and has moved. So the ball is in her court,

Does this all mean that only those who are estranged from their children have a right to give an opinion on GN? In dire situations the first rule must be to find a way forward. Just a first step. In these cases the wronged person who is often the one being most reasonable, has to be encouraged to look at the problem from the other side in order to make that one first step in the right direction.
Some of us on GN ( with experience in relationship counselling) try to introduce an opening to that first step being made. It is not right that this point of view should be considered as cold or unfeeling by others.i.e. the ones who are estranged from their children. They of course may have the feeling that no first steps can be made.