Any advice is appreciated!DIL at a loss here!!

Yor DH needs to tell her to shut up!.If she doesn't then she she will have NO contact with her GD.
She's a bully and is used to geting her own way...well no more! You and your DD do not need her in your lives

Sadly we live in a world where evidence is everythjng. So my suggestion is to get a secret dictaphone (15-20£) record their nastiness and play it back to them once you have collected enough evidence.

This way when they are mean to you, you can smile and take it knowing that you will be playing their spiteful words back to them at a time of your choosing.

It takes the power away from the bullies.

Incidentally, "just joking" and "you're being oversensitive" are classic bully responses.

Record it, reflect on it and act when you are good and ready.

after we gransnetters described as 'lovely ladies'
Rocknroll - you don't think this is a wind-up do you?
lovely ladies is a term a man may use - very annoying phrase!

This is awful, but you know what? If you find her a nightmare then no doubt lots of other folks do too. I wouldn't worry about her bad-mouthing you behind your back because others will be thinking that she's a nightmare and they'll be sympathetic to your plight.
It's a good thing your DH is on your side. I know it's a bit tricky but can you try to ensure that when he leaves the room in your presence you go out too?
If not and she says anything again, when DH comes back into the room say, "Maybe MIL would like to repeat what she just said ...." She'll no doubt deny all knowledge but you can't win with these people.

Jeus Christ! My ex deceased MiL was a nasty horrible person. Your MiL makes the ex deceased look like Mother Teresa.

She is awful. I doubt she will change either. You have every right to remove yourself from her life. This is not on.

She is clearly a jealous nasty person who hasn't let your OH go! Daughters are usually closer to there own mom's and the maternal side usually see more of the babies than the paternal side.

I know this from my family dynamics and being a mom to 3 sons and 1 daughter. I have 2 grandsons by my 2 eldest sons

I am not the type to be like the ex MiL however I have gone far out of my way to ensure I am so opposite mine have been known to turn to me and say "Mom I am supposed to be your child, not DiL" ?

She knows she can do this and is a nasty bully who is jealous. The main thing is your hub is onside. Quite honestly the way she is behaving around your baby she shouldn't be left alone with your baby.

Deliberately coughing all over her is child abuse. You do not have to see this woman and neither does your baby.

I hope the counselling works for you and you can stand up to her better in the future.

OMG. Never let your baby out of your site (niece holding her then falling over)!!!!! As for your mother in law. You will be better off without her in your life or your daughters. She sounds very toxic and I doubt she will not change. My daughter has similar with her mother in law who is just a nasty nasty person. Would thus person be beneficial to your own daughter..NO she will not. it is such a shame that we can't all have the ideal family closeness (too many other points to pick up on). end of the day no pojnt in her being in you or your daughters life. You have your family now with your daughter and husband and I wish you all the very best. Please stop stressing and enjoy your own family life ? X

Apologies I admit to not having read all previous posts so what I say may have been said.
I am wondering if your in laws are from a different culture. Whether or not that is the case I think one thing you can be thankful for is that your DH is on your side. It must be very hard for him being pulled in two directions.
I would cut the visits to one a week. Never let the baby go without you. Try to move when your mother does. Learn to be impervious to their hatred of you - it is not personal, it sounds as though your DH married outside of their circle and you make them feel inferior. Be strong, seek advice from people you respect but in the end trust what you feel is right. You sound very sensible. It would be normal for you to be over protective of your first baby but the incidents you quote are not acceptable, except that unless they have a definite illness, you will probably have to accept the kisses and lipstick! Babies seem to survive growing up with dogs licking their faces which is hardly hygeinic. Does anyone else in their family have a baby or is yours the first grandchild? If not the first you can maybe get tips from the other mothers.
It will get better as your DD gets bigger and less likely to be physically harmed. Then you will have to find a strategy against the verbal abuse but hopefully you will have moved by then. One day at a time.

Yogagirl said "I do not believe for one second that an adult relative that would love this baby, would allow a small child, cousin, to hold a new born baby & run round the house with it! "

Maybe we should all preface our posts by writing "IF what you say is true, then...."?

Reading between the lines is a very tricky thing to get right.

Show this to your husband and tell you are so desperate about the situation that you wrote to Gransnet. He needs to have a serious talk with them showing them that the rules regarding the baby are ones set by you both. They must also understand that they are Grandparents and they have a different roll to the parents.
Just a note to you, after the birth of a baby these sort of issues seem worse to you, so make sure you go back to the things that have happened with them to see if you are viewing it correctly. I actually thought my mother in law got dinner ready on purpose as to when my daughter woke up, so that she could look after her while we were eating and it was utter nonsense. I adored my mother in law.

you will probably have to accept the kisses and lipstick!
I would have to take issue with that - kissing babies on the lips is not acceptable as babies have died from contracting the herpes virus.

Interesting point about the different culture starbird - that could be a possibility.

Reading between the lines is a very tricky thing to get right. it certainly is FarNorth

Life is to short to put up with that rubbish. You have no obligation to have these horrid people in your life. Cut them out immediately, and the relief will be immense

Please do not allow this vile woman to ruin your life. She is clearly illogical, totally unreasonable and down right horrible. Do not allow her to taint your little families lifes, move if necessary and put as much mental and physical distance between you as possible. Why put yourself thro it, if it’s so bad that you need help with anxiety and coping strategies. She does not deserve to have contact with you after showing such disrespect and open hostility. As your baby gets older she will pick up on that dreadful atmosphere and remember it’s your duty to protect your child and not allow the poison to spread. Please disown her ASAP and be happy, life is far too short to tolerate this depth of disgusting behaviour.

Wow, your MIL really is special and not in a good way :-( You have been through some awful times with OH family and at a time when you are perhaps a little more vulnerable than you were before DD's birth.You will be stronger as you recover from all that is involved in being a new mum.

That said, I think both you and OH could do with a clearer view of the situation. It seems to me that you OH is still trying to take care everyone. That's not possible. understandable but not possible.

I was in a similar situation but thankfully due to 200+ miles it wasn't as bad as your situation.

I ended up pointing out to DH that MIL was a Grown Up clearly able to Take Care of herself and seemed happy to De-Stabilised out relationship.

It took some time for him to see MIL was Happiest when put His Vulnerable BABY at risk as a means of getting the two of us to fall out.

I had to make it clear that as the Grown Ups in our Baby's life it was our job to take care of DD and that we had to see through all the Drama MIL liked creating.

It was hard work not to get upset and angry when having these talks but one of the things I realised was that DH had torn loyalties.

Reasonably - he was still thinking he had to "Look after" his Mum's emotions and to keep is families "Good Opinion" of him.

I remember saying that's all well and good and as grown-up kids we feel those things. But ... Our DD (under 6 months at the time) was Not able to keep herself safe in any way - physically, emotionally and psychologically - that was Our Job.

Once he started to understand his feelings of being torn things got a little easier.

Then understanding that MIL could Choose how she behaved and she did Choose to behave badly and in a way that wasn't good for our relationship or our baby. And understanding that our baby was way too young to Choose how to behave, DD wasn't capable of setting up situations that would end in a damage the way MIL did. That understanding really helped. No Blame, no name calling, just helping him see what was really happening, how wrong it was helped.

The he started to understand it was up to him to Choose who he really wanted to look after MIL or DD.

After he got it we had to find a way for us to stay protected from MIL's games and keep DD safe from the damage those Games caused.

I wish you well, you clearly care about taking care of DD, OH and yourself in this Toxic situation. Well done for that. If you need help and support there are some wise and caring folks on here.

My DD is now 35 and DH and I are still together so we made it work. There is hope.

Be clear - your situation is Toxic - your MIL is playing nasty emotional and psychological games and you, DD and OH need your protection. Stay strong and well done for reaching out for help.

What a nasty mother in law. I would tell her you don't wish to see her again unless she changes her ways. I got very angry just reading this.

Seriously- MOVE. Preferably immigrate. I very much doubt your DH's family will ever treat you properly so cut your losses & your ties. If your DH cannot get his family to treat you with respect then you have years of heartbreak ahead.
It's just not worth it. Your child will notice the atmosphere when older & it is not fair on any of you.
I just do not understand it- I loved my Mil & I love both my DiLs & would never dream of undermining them-which is probably why I get to see so much of my DGC- it's a win/win situation.
Very best of luck to you. I really feel for you.

Looks as if you need some rules.

1. Never speak to her on the phone.
2. Never be with her when oh not here.
3. Only one visitor at a time.
4. Re baby get a mantra - suggest "My baby, my rules" mean it, never say anything more or anything less and repeat as often as necessary when stopping her doing something you are not happy with. Stick to it and it will work.Good luck!

Is this post for real?

And will it be picked up by the Daily Mail and turned into a piece on "Grandparents are bad for children" ?

You poor love - sounds like whatever you do is never going to be good enough - I would give up trying - such a shame. She sounds like a right nightmare.

I once went on a customer care course and the trainer talked about not getting on with his inlaws especially his mother in law. He said that life was too short to be put in situations that you are not happy with - so he spoke to his wife and they both agreed that visits to the inlaws would be minus him - he said once everyone accepted that things were a lot better.

Perhaps you should speak to your husband about how you really feel, he surely should see for himself what is happening and how unhappy you are - explain to him that you will back out of visiting them until such times that she accepts you for who you are and not what she wants you to be. (if there is ever a person that could be acceptable to her)

Good luck

You're not alone. I've been married twice and both times I had MILs that disliked me even though I gave them no reason to. They criticized everything I did. One if them even said I didn't need a pram I could carry the baby everywhere instead of spending her son's money! Both MILs died of cancer in their mid 60s (my age now!). My life was easier then but it's sad they died before enjoying their grandchildren.

I read a very good book, ‘Toxic In laws’ by an American psychologist which was helpful. She divided the Toxic In laws into five groups:
1. Engulfing
2. Controlling
3. Rejecting
4. Chaotic
5. Abusive

Some families are a bit of everything!

She gave scenarios for each, and wrote how the couples coped with the individual situations. Some scenarios were so awful that the young couple moved a long way away and broke off contact entirely.

I hope it goes well. Good luck. ?

You can't have a reasonable conversation with an unreasonable person so don't bother. Tell your mil and the family to take a running jump. Go off and treat yourself to something that'll boost your self esteem like a new haircut or style (mines blue/purple/pink it's amazing how many people stop and talk to me because of it) Its your DD, your DH. You don't have to put up with someone treating you like that and if your DH doesn't support you in preference to his mother he can go the same way. My first mil was a nightmare like yours, her son, my first DH, chose to back her in everything so that marriage didn't last long, my second mil was an angel and I miss her dreadfully.

Oh you poor thing, you have been a lot more patient than I would have been. There comes a time when you have to put her on notice and tell her she has exhausted your patience and you won’t tolerate any more nastiness and disrespect. If she wants to be part of your lives she either accepts your wishes, whether she approves or not, or she will be excluded from your and your child’s life, your husband can have a relationship with her, without you having to put up with her behaviour. You can’t let her make you anxious and stressed. I suspect at the heart of this is jealousy. Instead of being happy that her son has met someone who he loves, she is acting like a jealous ex, some mothers are so possessive that is what they do.

I am lucky, my son’s partner is lovely and we have become good friends, if she has a day off she often rings and we go shopping or have lunch, their new baby is due next month, my first grandchild and I couldn’t be more excited, she has two lovely children from a previous marriage and needs no advice from me, but I wouldn’t volunteer any unless I was asked, it’s her baby and I will respect her ways, will visit when invited, and being a clean freak would be horrified at anyone going near him if they had anything infectious, as for kissing a baby on the lips when you could pass on any bugs, that’s an absolute no no in my book, but it’s up to his mother to decide, not me. Her mother and I get on great as well, no jealousy or competition and that how families should be. I feel sorry for you that you have this awful woman to deal with.

I hope you can reach some kind of agreement with her, but some people are just plain nasty, and it’s not your fault, it’s down to her, so please don’t let her make you miserable.

Yogagirl, at the end of the day we can only react to what the OP says, unless we suspect it's not true. I have no reason to believe she's lying, any more than anyone else who comes on here asking for advice and support. Gransnet would be a very quiet place if we chose not to believe anything we were told. How could we advise or comment on anybody's situation if that were the case?

Yogagirl for someone quoting " Buddha" and a few other GN who have posted negative comments( where is your empathy) if you can't give any helpful advice to the OP why post at all?