Apologies

JaneA well put and well thought out.

I see that LLL has given up preaching - for now anyway.

Well, that's us told then! (I'm referred to the OP, not any since, of course.)

LLL - I wonder ... how does one get to be so wise? No, I'm not angry and I don't sense any anger from any of the other posters on here, just some surprise that you've come on here setting yourself up as being so wise that you are able to lecture us on our behaviour towards our families. Relationships are necessarily at least two-way - you seem to be saying that any estrangement is down to faulty apologies. What does that even mean? Is any apology which is requested faulty? You also made the sweeping generalisation that men don't have the same issues - oh no? Well, I can think of several who have the "apology delivered through gritted teeth" down to a fine art!
Not really sure why I'm engaging with this topic - sorry. I'm clearly out of my depth, so I shall go and re-read my psychology text books and old essays instead. That was a 'sarcastic' apology by the way - one more to add to your list.

"madgran. I think we need a ‘tongue in cheek’ emoticon"

Thanks *Jane" - missed the irony there completely!!!

Well, I think it's quite an interesting list but it is not just relevant to various relationships within the family but to any social or work relationship. It could alert people to the importance of showing sincere remorse and avoiding words and phrases that suggest a lack of sincerity and true regret.

However, it occurs to me that if someone genuinely can't understand what it is that has caused a problem, is it possible to make a sincere apology? Taking Gransnet, for example, where a Gransnetter has said that she is getting increasingly tired looking after grandchildren but when the subject has been broached it has caused anger, threats and a family rift. Isn't the answer to discuss the issue in as calm a way as possible and try to resolve the issue rather than just make an apology?

I think the fact that it has been posted on Gransnet and refers to specific family relationships is why it has not been welcomed. It might be interpreted as seeing only the older generation - and specifically older women - as being the offending party, and follow-up posts from the OP seem to justify that interpretation.

"4.The assumptive apology. (I think I may have hurt you. I’m sorry)."
I don't understand what is supposed to be wrong with the above!!!?? Anyone enlighten me? If you think you may have hurt someone what is wrong with saying so and apologising?

I think it's to simplistic.
You can't group relationships into one size fits all.
Each and every story involves individuals with their own beliefs and opinions.

Also sometimes an apology is just not enough. My MIL could be on her knees in front of my husband saying sorry for every single error. But it wouldn't do anything. He doesn't want her in his life. She's out. The damage she has caused was to severe and while we've managed to move on it's still happened and that can't be changed. So nothing she does going forward will ever end the cut off.
She could spin a wonderful story about how wronged she is. How she is the victim and how she has no idea what she's done but he doesn't give a rats arse. She can say and do what she wants he doesn't care.

You are right Bibbity that there comes a point where no amount of apologising will change things. Pushed too far, people switch off, close down, the care has gone. That can apply to anyone in a relationship - an Adult Child; a parent; a MIL; a FIL ...and so on. Each story is different as you say

?

Thank you janeainsworth. I was born in 1946 and my parents fit the description you gave but I loved them to bits and still miss them every day and so wish we had all been able to express our feelings for each other but I do know that there was a lot of love around our house.

I read this when it was first posted and my immediate response was that this person (LLL) was perhaps testing out a paper s/he had written for school or university; hence I didn't respond. As s/he has now followed this up with further comments I guess my initial assumption was perhaps mistaken; in which case, I think it is an extremely patronising post.

In response to a few posts, Truths are not supposed to come off as patronising. I'm also not speaking on a specific case.

Too many estranged parents claim to lack any knowledge of their wrongdoing. Too many estranged children claim that they do. Some said never apologise never explain. Is their a power struggle over divided loyalties? How can a relationship move forward with such a barrier?

LLL - I'm sorry but your post is patronising, assuming your list is the answer to everyone's problems. Most of the people on this site have years of dealing with various experiences and situations and really don't need someone coming along to tell them they have been wrong all these years.

Relationships are complicated and you are assuming things can be set right with an apology. What do you suggest should happen when someone refuses to accept an apology. The way forward is communication but sometimes that doesn't work.

LLL, what's puzzling is how come you are the authority on these matters?

I was thinking the same thing.
LLL do you actually hold some ostensibly relevant qualification or are you speaking from experience (apart from observing others)?

I honestly don't think this is at all helpful to people on this site struggling with estrangement, and there is a certain lack of sensitivity in dropping it here like it is revelatory.

LLL can you answer my genuine questions please - see further ba ck in thread. A couple of others also asked questions

LLL I find your long screed on apologies incredibly ssimplistic and naive and if you had properly read, say half a dozen of the threads on estrangement on GN you would find that the most common phrase in the UK is NOT I’m estranged but I don’t know what I did wrong. It is I have APOLOGISED and said I am sorry, even though I do not know what I have done. What is your simplistic solution for parents who would take responsibility for the Iraq War if it would unite their family.

Why assume that it is the parents tht are to blame. life and relationships are complicated and estrangements are not neccessarily based on a 'wrong' and a 'right' that can be solved by an apology. There can be events in childhood or adult life, that have been misinterpreted or misunderstood or one person may not even be aware events happened. There is mental illness, addiction, so many things that cause estrangement that cannot be resolved by an apology

My shaky relationship with my sister was resolved by a casual remark she made in her 60s. I discovered her wariness with me was based on her misinterpretation of things my mother said when DS was 9. Given the circumstances of our childhood at that time her misinterpretations were entirely understandable. The conversation was so internalised, she had never consciously thought about why our relationship was uneasy. Apologies were irrelevant. We are both relieved that we are both so much happier together.

It seems to me that if, given the number of unsuitable apologies you have posted, we are unlikely to get an apology right, Never apologise, never explain, might be the best course to follow. After all if someone is going to be hurt by something you say isn't it better never to say it?

Maybe LLL is one of the people who have been apologised to time and time again but is quite determined to find a reason to not accept the apology?

I agree with MOnica naive as well as patronising. .

LLL why haven't you answered all the questions? Why are you so selective? Is it because you don't have answers?

LiveLaughLaove (sic) please do feel free to continue your enlightening lectures on egg sucking.
Trust me, ina few years, or even decades, when your life experience has caught up with the theory, you will look back and possibly blush or even cringe as so often happens when we pontificate without real understanding.
However, don’t let anybody stop you, just don’t be surprised if you do not receive the adulation you seem to expect.

LLL missed out - 'I'm sorry. Can we let by bygones be bygones?' I'd call that the 'sweeping it under the carpet' apology if it has to have a category.

Since when did anyone ever analyse the wording of their apology? My apologies tend to be heart felt, instinctive, unrehearsed. It sounds as if none are acceptable according to the OP and all us wrong-doers will have to writhe in pain and guilt forever more, inspecting our words because we've been even more offensive in apologising and have made matters worse!

I never realised apologising was so complicated!

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but it obviously is!