Apologies

Um, I actually think LLL meant well, even if her OP came off as lectury. I THINK what she's trying to say is that often those "many apologies" that people made fell flat because they didn't seem sincere for one of the reasons she mentioned on her list. Only problem is, how does one remember all those "don'ts?" Does one stop oneself every few seconds to check that none of them slipped into their apology? LOL!

IDKY LLL doesn't give us an example of a "sincere" apology. But I'm willing to take a crack at it. Let me know what you think, ladies...

First, to me anyhow, an apology sounds most sincere when it's simple and admits to the wrong. "I'm sorry I did XYZ." Maybe add, "I know I hurt you, and I feel terrible about that." I also think a really true apology would include a promise not to repeat the offense. "It won't happen again." But one would have to really mean that. If not, it won't ring true.

Imo, that's another problem with apologies. Even if one gives the exact "right" kind, if one's heart isn't really in it, the other person can usually tell.

Also, sometimes, the other person, I suppose, just isn't ready to forgive yet, no matter how sincere one is. Timing means a lot. It's not always the offender's fault that the apology doesn't work. They may have been as sincere as anything, but the offended party just wasn't willing to forgive at that point. ... Just my thoughts...

Starlady apparently, according to LLLs list, acknowledging you hurt someone is not appropriate - but I have no idea why!

Also adult children have the right to choose between a healthy and unhealthy relationships, and family is not an exception to toxicty. Additionally, exceptions to unhealthy relationships should'nt be tolerated or forced into reconciliation, on the basis of family.

Naturally, people typically enter in a cycle of depression when they badly want to get out of what they consider to be an unhealthy environment. Despite these factors, parents still want in, despite the adult children wanting out.

Reaching out incessively, ignoring their requests for no contact, holding family interventions, showing up randomly to talk, blaming them for having mental health issues, or being ungrateful, entitled mean, spoilt and selfish children - further assumes that you believe in having had a healthy relationship and want to maintain one, irrespective of the fact that they obviously left for something about this relationship you share eventually took a toxic turn. Adult children that have found happiness in the absence of their parents, should be let to be. One wouldn't want to see a child they claim to love in any unhealthy relationship. Why would any parent want to be an exception to this?

LLL do you have any personal experience of what you describe or is it a more academic interest you have?

LLL. Can you please explain where you are coming from so we can better understand. Are you a grandmother that has been cut off, or are you a mother that wants to, or has cut off grandparents? Or are you randomly reading posts and trying to help people in your own way? Or maybe it’s all of the above, or none of the above, but I’d really like to know, to better understand where your coming from. Thank you!

LLL, May I commend to you Vile Bodies, by Evelyn Waugh. Your lecture remindedw me irresistibly of Mrs. Melrose Ape, who sought to lecture to the English upper classes on morality, and was deflated by one elevated grandma saying "What a very impertinent woman!" (I quote from memory).

I was also reminded of Touchstone's seven stages of the lie in As You Like It.

So forgive me for not taking your OP seriously.

What a load of rubbish LLL. I suspect you're either an AC who has CO their own parent(s) or a partner whose 'encouraged' their partner to CO theirs.

or are you researching for a book?
am I allowed to ask that?

It seems to me that if, given the number of unsuitable apologies you have posted, we are unlikely to get an apology right so just don't bother, apologising apparently causes more trouble than it's worth

No one (parents included), is entitled to push for anything from another person’s life. More so if the parent’s demands conflict with those that another individual, of adult age has consciously considered as a healthy life choice.

Why don’t you answer people’s questions instead of acting like a robot with computer generated replies. You could probably help people on this forum if you answered questions and acted humanly with feeling

This is a bit odd now!

Was it ever anything else Madgran?
A thread opens with a diatribe and we can only wonder what the motivation or intended effect.
Stir the grans up?
Impart some groundbreaking new knowledge?
Top up with a few cut n pastes every so often, light blue touch paper and retire. ? ?

How on earth did you choose your username, LiveLaughLove? Is this really how you see yourself?

And then manage to get it wrong?

Maw

As many have implied OP is pontificating rather than sharing personal experiences which we all know to be more helpful.

Baby 1

Some people are masters in the art of arguing, and so skillful they are in reverse-authority tactics. Genuine questions don't turn into irrelevant joke, jabs and dismissal tactics. The intent is apparent – divert and deflect, and take bait. And by the time you find yourself silenced and reeled into their hole, it will be too late.So they win by damaging your credibility, lowering the status of truth, and discrediting a valid post to its entirety. Now with silence on their side, the chosen side of the coin can continue to be presented as victim. So to answer your question, I simply, chose not to respond any bear-baiting questions. The original post was a piece of advise, and not a story of my life. Everyone is free to take it or leave it. Things will not always go everyone's way in life. Maybe this is where the problem is - if a post on an apology is clearly under attack. hmm

I think the problem LLL was thar nobody had asked for the advice.

At my advanced years I prefer not to give advice. Experience has taught me that if it was unasked for, it is usually resented. And even if asked for most people only take it if it was what they wanted to hear in the first place.

But even that can backfire. If they take your advice and it doesn’t work out, you will probably get the blame.

Why do I hear Alexa?

LLL So have I got this right?

You set out your thesis on apologising, in the knowledge or hope that your readers would respond negatively, with jokes, jabs and dismissal tactics.

When the majority of us did, you were then able to use this as proof that we are a lot of arrogant individuals who deserve all we get, especially any amongst us unfortunate enough to have experienced estrangement?

We sure fell for that one, didn’t we?

LLL The difference between your advice and my coffee is that I asked for my coffee!!

You post a list of your "truth" when in fact it is just your opinion. Human relationships cannot be defined by an over simplistic list.

I am not estranged from anyone, if I make a mistake I apologise and I find that apology is accepted in the spirit it is intended in the same way I accept any apology offered to me.

Several posters have asked why LLL did post.
Whether she is speaking from personal experience, observation or out of academic interest?
I'd genuinely like to know why these questions are seen as 'bear-baiting'?