Apologies

Good point, MawBroon, I've got a bathroom to clean anyway!

LLL I cant answer your question, which is why I haven't! That does not invalidate my genuine question to you, nor is it a reason not to answer my question or tell me that you cant answer it!

LLL "took a vow to do no harm" sounds like someone who did a basic Counselling course to me.

I'm curious that the OP and subsequent comments by LLL are all directed at the mothers of adult children. There is no acknowledgement that adult children can be difficult, demanding etc.

Projection anyone? The IO strikes me as the result of unfinished emotional business and the need to lecture the older generation on the entitlement and rights of their adult children. Most of us are loving parents. There are some on this site who have written details about being cut out of the lives of their adult children's lives. Being faced with a list like the one in the OP isn't going to help anyone.

Janeainsworth's comments about our generation being brought up with the shadow of WW1 and WW2 in our background is something we can acknowledge. My own family and friendship circle have discussed the impact on family relationship. They haven't called their fathers toxic, or blamed their mothers for attempting to keep the peace. I hope LLL can listen to the comments here which give a fairly consistent response to her patronising post.

Im glad ive no in laws just a daughter mother and grandaughter. My dd partner is ok we tolerate each other. Sorry to op but i just couldnt read all of that lengthy post. Yes im apologising but i do it all the time cos im a wimp.

Iam64 LLL doesn't sound like a listener to me...

Why do the vast majority of estrangements revovle around the mother-child relationship?
That's painfully b---- obvious. Most people have a mother!

Agree Blinko

What’s the point of this long and lengthy thread ?
Self-justification?
Psychological projection?

Lll You want us to answer, however you haven’t answered are most basic questions
1. Are you a mother
2. Are you a grandmother
3. Are you estranged from someone
4. Have you estranged someone
5. Are you hurting and looking for
Suppor
6. Is your research you are gaining for
a paper, and you have no interest
in supporting us at all

I should’ve proof read, there needs to be an edit button, sorry

I think that this is for some University Thesis.
Throw it out there and see people’s reactions to your theory. Write it up and voila! A 2/1 or maybe a 2/2.

I agree!

I also took a vow,
Do no harm, but take no S**t.

Rather than continue to "make petty points about spellchecking", I am giving up banging my head against a brick wall.

I wish I was clever enough to cut and paste this onto our younger site mumsnet it would be interesting to get their take on it.
I’m glad my own daughter didn’t end up in the hands of someone like LLL or our estrangement would never have been healed.

LLL doesn't sound like a listener to me...
Blinko I cannot help suspecting the reason could be that LLL’s posts are computer generated.

janeainsworth I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

I take your point, ja. But it would have to be a computer that can't spell...

This post sounds like something out of a pseudo-psychological thesis from the psychodynamic (Freudian) counselling perspective circa 1990s, in other words its all the fault of the mother even when you say it isn't. You can't argue against it as its unfalsifiable, and you are in denial if you refuse to accept the interpretation of the almighty therapist. Shame we have no exemplars of the perfect apology we should all strive for, but maybe the OP is keeping that to themselves as we can't be trusted with that knowledge. Or maybe in perfect relationships there should be no need for an apology in the first place? (and therapists would be out of a job)

Think you've hit the nail on the head there Geri; after all, "love is never having to say you're sorry"! And that quote is as unrealistic and outdated as LLL's list of non apologies. I'd be very interested if LLL would pop back on here to give all us poor schmucks a tutorial in the correct way to offer, and accept, an apology. don't he/she will though

Love that quote Janeainsworth I'm going to use it for my class life lesson this week, thanks.

Only read first couple of posts...but will plough on ....

Such funny replies Nonnie do American's spell Love; Laove, as well as mum & mom?

Another good quote JAW from JL

I wouldn't give a fake apology without being clear in my own mind that I was doing so and had a good reason to do so (Eg I had stuffed up at work and it was someone else's fault but I decided to fake an apology rather than rock the boat any further). Otherwise, if I don't feel sorry, I don't apologise. On the whole I don't really take much notice of apologies given to me either - I judge by actions not words. If I think it's worth giving a person another chance I do so whether or not they apologise, and if I think a person will never change then I tell them their apology is useless .

Am I the only one who thinks that anyone who would cut off the people who love them without even telling them why can't really be of sound mind?

No, you're not the only one Maggiemay. My s.i.l smoked skunk & sniffed cocaine from the age of 13yrs. I'm sure his pickled brain would be well sort after by medical scientist!

Oh, I like that one Oopsadaisy, but don't think I'll use it in my class, just keep it for myself

I've laughed all the way through this thread, so funny! Blow the list of things I'd set up for this morning