Fair shares

Sorry, Maw, my comments were not meant to be personal, but you have twisted what I said. I did not say anything about not treating children fairly. We certainly do, but being fair does not mean doing exactly the same thing for all in every circumstance and at the same time. It often means equivalence and balancing over time.

What I have no time for is indulging in useless guilt. What is the point of it? where does it get you? It certainly doesn't solve any dilemmas. I may be a woman but I am certainly not programmed to feel guilty, nor do I have gland for it.

Guilt is something I feel when I know that by action or inaction I have done something wrong and it is followed by making what reparation I can for my wrong behaviour. I will always continue to regret my actions but wallow in guilt I will not. To often guilt is used as an excuse for self-flagellation rather than positive action to right a wrong.

Some women, and this is not personal to anyone, seem to get a perverse pleasure from feeling martyred, it seems to give them a sense of self worth. I find that incomprehensible.

Well said Monica. I make a decision based on time, energy, or money and that is it. Sometimes I feel sorry I couldn’t do something for someone as I would have enjoyed doing it. But guilt no. I would feel guilty if I kept a purse full of money I found or something else that was morally wrong but otherwise no.

Is it a mother’s /granny’s place to feel guilty whatever I do?
Yes, it is part of our genetic programming

But don't feel guilty - just say 'well, DD1 or 2 asked first - sorry, darling.'

Agreed Heather51, what has happened to gransnet? A great many posts seem to have nothing to do with being a grandparent, just a forum for people who have nothing better to do than generally whinge and rant about life. It’s neither useful nor pleasant for anyone to read about grumpy old fogies sounding off.

As for guilt, you are the sort of person who has it or not, regardless of your actions. But I can’t help but think that it is the less caring of us who have no guilt, justified or not.

Just because I reserve my feeling of guilt for something that is morally wrong does not mean I lack compassion or that I care any less, far from it. Also about grumpy old fogies sounding off why not do as. I do? Some forums I am interested in and they run well, others don’t so I leave it. We are all different in how we put our views across.

And if you are brought up as a Catholic sodapop the guilt is even greater. We are born feeling guilt for everything lol x

Wish I had your problem!

M0nica, I am filled with envy. I’d love to feel like you, and not feel unnecessarily guilty, but I’m another with a guilt complex. Hats off! ?

I understand those feelings of being pulled in several directions at once and how hard it is to say no to requests of help.

DD1 asked if I could drop little one off at a party on Thursday as she had a work commitment she couldn't get out of. I had to tell her we wouldn't be around as we had plans but I felt awful in not being able to help out. Daughter was fine and understood we wouldn't be in the vicinity but I do hope she can resolve the problem and little one gets to her party. It's been playing on my mind.

I understand how hard it is to say no to AC when they need help. Part of me wants to be SuperGran and take it all on, but as OH says, we too have an active life and didn't get half as much help and support from our parents when we were raising our children. He has a point but loyalties are so torn.

Sorry, being awkward again. I am a catholic, convent (several) educated and all that and I don't have the guilt thing. I have only ever known one catholic who did. I hadn't even heard about it until some people who weren't catholics told me about it after I left school.

MOnica, great to hear you don't have the Catholic guilt thing. I'm not a Catholic but all my (ex) Catholic and current Catholic friends talk and laugh about it, a lot.

It has never even occurred in conversation with friends, catholics or not.

Feelingmyage55 I totally agree! I couldn't and wouldn't omit the "sorry" from my response when I have to say "I'm sorry I can't manage that this time." I'm afraid I don't quite follow what people mean when they say we shouldn't say "sorry". I feel sorry after all! Also I think Beejo's friend was spot on! Also it's not just becoming a mother that brings these two. I have friends who could not have give birth to their own children but are equally devoted to their family and friends, and seem to be responsible for a lot - for Christmas for example. When one did this after she had been in hospital, I asked her if one of the other members of the family could take over that year and she simply said " If I didn't do it, we wouldn't see each other." So it's definitely a female, (that can mean some men do it) nurturing, caring thing that leads to feeling guilty if we can't help everyone. Even though we know it's not our fault! But when were emotions logical? I do think it comes with the massive amount of love we feel. We genuinely want to do anything for them! Of course, it's impossible to do everything, so somehow we just have to find a balance.... It's good to talk about things though and good to know from a friend that we have done our best and need not feel guilty!

I've never felt guilt, but maybe that's just having the one child?
But if I couldn't or didn't want to do something then I'd just say no.

I agree. I thought the 'guilt is vanity' remark utterly unhelpful and pretty smug to boot

I'm also programmed for guilt if I can't help them both. Yesterday was a good example. I always pick up my son's children every afternoon and take them home. But yesterday my DD called in a fluster to ask " could I go and pick hers up, take DG to horse riding lessons and stay until she got home ". Both she and her husband had work responsibilities that they couldn't get out of. I couldn't bear to say no, so I tied myself into knots to achieve my aims. Picked up my son's children early from school and then drove us all for an hour to pick up DD's two, took DG2 to horse riding, back to DD's place and fed everybody, and when she finally got home at 8pm I bundled DS's children into the car and drove an hour back to deliver them home to Dad. My husband says I am mad, but I'm hard wired to bend over backwards for them . I don't have any great interests or hobbies , I just have my family and I wouldn't be without them. Like you I feel bad if I can't help . I think that mothers and grandmothers are sisters under the skin when it comes to guilt !

I’d have felt very guilty if I hadn’t looked after my own children, but I don’t feel guilty about my grandchildren. It’s their parents’ job to look after them, not mine. Grandparents have never looked after grandchildren in my family, except in an emergency, and even then it’s more likely to have been aunts or uncles providing the care.

When did it become the norm (as it seems to be according to this thread) to expect grandparents to provide regular childcare? It seems unfair to me - we’re the wrong generation.

MissAdventure, it doesn't change with two. I also do not want to do anything and everything for my children. We see the dire affects of that too often in threads on GN. Parents who have done anything and everything for their children and ended up with selfish, unloving and demanding monsters and don’t know why.

As well as loving my family I have a very busy and interesting life beyond them and while I will always respond in an emergency - we lived with DD for 2 months after her accident, plus after all her further operations and treatments. I expect them to live their own lives. They are grown-up and should be independent.

When we were my children's age, with a family of small children, it would never have occurred to us to ask for our parents to help us in any way, except in the direst emergency. I see no reason why that should be different for my own children.

Well said

The role of grandparents in relation to childcare has changed drastically over the last 20 years or so due to many more women going back to work & the extortionate cost of childcare.
I have 5 children, work full time & my eldest DD who has DGD lives 250 miles away so any help I can offer is limited.
I don't feel guilty but would like to help more, especially with babysitting etc.
All of my friends (literally without exception) who live locally to their children help out with childcare, as has been said that would have been unheard of when mine were younger.

Part of the reason I stopped going to "mummy groups" was the total shaming I recieved because my parents refuse to babysit including in serious emergencies.

(Also being shamed for choosing to stay at home with them, but that's a different issue)

You ladies are right that there is now a huge expectation that you are 'entitled' to some sort of relief parenting by your own parents. I have been interrogated at length so often about when do I get "me time" or a rest. Come the autumn, I will have three under three. Not much rest to be had!!

I don't personally feel its your parents' responsibility to pick up the added strain of your family planning decisions, but what do I know, after all I stay at home...

Absolutely nothing wrong with staying home Gummy. I stayed at home with mine when they were little & have no regrets. I was lucky that financially I was able to do so & appreciate that is not the case for everyone ( or of course the choice they would make). I returned to full time work when my youngest was 4. My view is that we are a long time working & to enjoy our children whilst we can.

That's ridiculous, gummybears, to "shame" you for your parents' attitude.
I think it's mean of your parents, tho, if they refuse help they could give, in a serious emergency.
Still, I suppose if they are not child-friendly people it might be best all round for them not to get involved.

I have never been well enough to help with my DGC and so I have missed out on such a lot, all except the guilt bit. DDIL told me recently that the GC think it is great that they always know where I am and are happy that I always have time to talk or play or read with them. Clearly there are bonuses to be had in all situations so that is a real blessing.

My own DM said to me a similar thing to the above post about the two boxes marked Guilt and Worry and told me they will never go away but they become/are very different through the years along the path of life. It is just life isn't it! It is very like the gift of empathy which is very painful at times but I still wouldn't be without it.

What a nasty judgemental lot you have in your local 'mummy groups' gummybear! - and how things have changed in 30 years!

I went back to work part time when my younger child was 4 and met disapproval from quite a number of mothers in my social group, who were convinced that my DC would suffer as a result of my 'neglect'.