OVER INDULGENT PARENTS

Goodness me Norton, if you want them to read a book on parenting, the advice has changed since we were raising our own children.
The Victorian speak until spoken to, is no longer considered best practice. I think if you want to remain a cherished member of the family I would support dil and tell her she is doing a good job, rather than judge her parenting decisions. My Mil had constant feedback on my parenting, and unsurprisingly I decided to move to a new postal code to get away from her.

chestnut completely with you. I never once bought my children sweets, or anything else, at the checkout.

Friday was sweetie day. We had a lovely old-fashioned sweet shop in the village, full of penny sweets at a child's level. 20p each and they were away. It is remarkable how good a 3 year old's arithemetic becomes let loose with 20p and a sea of sweets all costing less than 5p each.

Granny-joy that was an unwarranted slur on other people's parenting skills. I am another whose children will have said 'I hate you' to me sometime in childhood, not weekly, not annually, but a couple of times, usually during a teenage strop when told that, aged 14, I wouldn't let them go to a pop concert 100 miles away on their own or similar.

I would be more worried by a home where such events never arose. It suggests repression, denial or emotional blackmail.

Have you considered the possibility of this being a personal problem on your end as opposed to her children actually having any problem? You really need to butt out and mind your own business.

And maybe you can instead get yourself a book on grandparenting advise? I'm 100% sure that it will clearly show you how this issue isn't any of your business and gently coach you on the importance of not interfering into issues that don't concern you in any shape way or form.

I too can sympathise with you norton. I have a similar problem with my DGC being spoiled, in my opinion demanding attention at all times, it's not easy to watch all this happening. My fear is that they grow up cheeky, spoiled little monkeys. However don't look for much support here as I was made to feel a terrible Gran, not a nice feeling.

People disagreeing with you should not make you feel a terrible gran. People are free to not agree with you and say so. Feeling a terrible gran is something you inflict on yourself.

Children need boundaries if they are able to function as teens and adults.

I despair when I hear the constant, prolonged negotiating between parents and 3/4 year olds.

Then there is the hideous spend fest that is Christmas.

Sorry OP, perhaps the Mum could reflect on her childhood and reconsider some basic rules.

I think it is also hard if you see the parents constantly exhausted. You want to help but know that any criticism isn't going to go down well . I believe saying 'no' and leaving it at that is ok, I didn't do smacking but I would tell them that they couldn't do/have something and it did seem to work.
Many years ago I was a nanny for a short while . The kids were treated with kid gloves as though they were delicate flowers by their adoring parents.
I wonder how they are now ?

Yes I hate you was always a good standby for kids to say, better than them saying f... off. About your problem, well I would just leave it for the parents to cope BUT you could have in your house, your rules and ask the parents to respect this.

The children will learn as they move through life that it is not all about them and they will gradually change.

Mind you some don't Boris springs to mind

Is the OP still with us?

My in-laws were very kind to me and although I am sure they must have been surprised, at the least, by how we brought up our DC, they kept their own counsel. My own DM, on the other hand, was always ready to offer advice which wasn't often wanted.

I riled my DD recently she hit the roof when I suggested the DGC were watching too much TV.....
I don't recommend intervening if you wish to stay alive a respected member of the family.

Difficult one. Stay clear and keep mum. Remember though. In your home nannies rules.

it’s hard to keep quiet but speaking up is unlikely to help. Unasked for advice is generally useless and could damage your relationship with them. An awful lot of us have been there and understand your concern, you want to do the best for them but in this case you have to stand back. One thing - do the children come to your’s? Here it’s my house, my rules and a chance to model a different way of dealing with children. Chin up and button lip!

Please do not buy any books like that if you want to stay on good terms with the parents. That is interfering. When GC come to your house then rules of politeness are yours. When they are not with you, not your monkies not your circus.
Don't interfere!

A lot of harsh comments here! I feel that you OP really want to help this little family and your motives are kind rather than critical but I certainly agree that it’s best not to offer any unsolicited advice or even any advice! I have found that the advice giver is rarely thanked! I certainly don’t offer advice around parenting to any of my children!

This is so hard. We have been catapulted into a very different form of parenting to what we would have done. My children say there is an emphasis on ‘ child led ‘ just about everything now, like sleeping, feeding, discipline..... the list is relentless. We’ve watched one of our sons and his wife struggle. Where one short smack would have ended the problem when we were parents, now everything has to be negotiated!! No matter how young the child. The result...naughty children who don’t listen and have no respect. I understand the idea that it is best to back off, and let them deal with it, and it is really. However, I see it a bit like an impending car crash, you’d avoid it if you could, for , hopefully, a better outcome, but if it’s possible it may be detrimental to relationships, then yes, we do have to sit in the background and spectate. My son and DIL do not like our advice, but my other kids do, so that’s fine. We watched one of those Emergency programmes a few months ago, where the theme was parents calling the police for help with wayward kids. The message from that episode was the huge rise emergency services have seen in calls like this over the last 15 years. Discipline has gone.... the kids are in charge, and parents are just there to make sure they get what they need.

I would sit back and do nothing . Your daughter in law will soon notice her mistake , when on parents evenings the teacher pulls her up on his behaviour . Also when he doesn't get invited to party's and invited to others houses for tea . Then when she starts to complain that's when your chance to say something . Good luck .

Buster tank, I find this hasn’t happened yet with our grandchildren. They’re great outside the perimeters of their parents. It’s the parents having the hard time, and sometimes us if we look after them. Although usually, they respond to firm words from us. They are really lovely children, I just sense contempt for their mum and dad, which is sad, because they are the ones that love them the most?

I think the OP has raised some legitimate concerns re her grandchildren. I do think many children are over-indulged and have developed a level of feeling of entitlement that is not good for them or the people looking after or teaching them. I'm not referring to showing love and affection and engaging properly with what a child is saying, or to spending (some) time reading and playing with a child. I mean giving in to unreasonable demands so as to avoid tantrums - just because it's easier, in the short term at least, to do than standing firm.

I do think some of the remarks on here are rather rude - such as telling to OP to "butt out". Also, saying "it's not your problem" and (disgracefully I think) "they're better off without you" is, at best, not helpful and, at worst, downright nasty. Norton doesn't see her grandchildren as being her "responsibility" or a problem that she has to solve. She is, worried, which I think is natural.

As someone else said, "spoilt" children tend not to be very likeable and may well be unpopular with other children and adults. It is surely natural to be worried about that?

Norton I do understand your worry but I am not sure of the best way forward. Unlike other people here, I don't think it's such a terrible thing to voice a concern to the parents - though perhaps to do so very sparingly. Obviously if you think that your son and daughter in law would take umbrage and it would cause bad feeling between you all, then it's probably better to say nothing, in the hope that things change as the children get older.

As another poster said, if the children come to your house then, so far as manners and respectful behaviour are concerned, it should, within reason, be "my house, my rules".

Not your children...not your problem...I have to remind myself of this many times..if they ask for advice I give it...or otherwise bite my tongue.

Who are we to even consider ourselves to be an authority on parenting. We all make mistakes, there is no perfect parent on this planet, but more importantly people learn from their own mistakes. These children are not in any immediate danger and while we can observe things that we would do differently, we only know and can work with our own truths, on our own path of life.

Love, kindness and support are the things I most valued from my Mother while I was bringing my children up...x

Kathy, I don't think it's a choice between a smack and constant negotiating. Children seem to be primed, to wear down adults with constant demands fueled by a society which is obsessed with material goods.
It takes 2 tough and consistent parents to tough it out.

Children need love but they also need boundaries for when they encounter others in life. It is doing them a grave disservice to indulge them with the idea that they are the centre of the universe when they are not. Youngsters will need to be able to mix with others and be respectful to educators, friends and employers.

To the sentimentalists on this thread berating the OP, your advice will make the dear children unemployable.

Of course, pointing this out to doting and foolish parents is just asking for trouble. People never forgive others when they, themselves, are in the wrong.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Been watching this going on in my family. Recognise what you mean with the faces if all that is demanded isn't forthcoming and immediately. Now at the stage DGS is causing disruption in class. No give or take, everything has to be his way. Intelligent boy who due to behaviour may miss out on being selected for opportunities in education. Professional help is needed to sort problem out as one parent trying yo take control will just not work if other constantly gives in to demands. So hard to stand by and watch the result of 7 years of indulgence.

Sorry painting just came back to this thread and saw your post.
What sussex was suggesting and I was commenting on is that every half term we often get threads started by people who post some relationship question, or start a discussion about school uniforms or the price of plimsoles or some such and loads of GNetters take time to offer their support and help and advice but then the OP never returns again.
When I said time will tell I meant let’s wait and see if this a genuine question from a genuine granny which we will find out if the OP comes back. So none of the things you mention above about aliens etc.

Not sure what you meant about safeguarding either, sorry.