Calling SS on Tuesday

There are bound to be questions asked.

It’s for age 7+ according to the NSPCC. Even if it was 21+ it’s still not the OP’s place to interfere. The children’s father is the one who should be stepping in if he doesn’t like the situation.

www.net-aware.org.uk/networks/minecraft/

I disagree that you should not do anything. I couldn't stand by and see my grandkids neglected, which is what I see going on.

No schedule, and no education at all by the sounds of it. Just an excuse to be lazy.

Push your son to be involved in his children's schooling, and if that doesn't work, then re-think.

Even if the schooling is unconventional, they should be registered with the education system.

My grandson's both use minecraft to learn computer coding so I believe it can be educational.

Your son does not come across well here. He looks the worst one.

I am telling you my gc can not read and according to the articles I've seen regarding "unschooling" these people believe it is perfectly normal with some children not reading even at the age of 13. They are not taught until they say they want to read.

I know the GC who uses Minecraft does so unrestricted way past midnight. The children when asked what is homeschool they say colouring, cooking, video games and forests.

They are not registered with any educational authority. When they became school age Dil simply did nothing didn't phone the nearest school or the local authority or anything just carried on like she didn't have to.

@Bibbity thank you for your comment but I'm not here for finger pointing, I'm concerned about my gc not having a proper education as unschooling is NOT a proper education it's lazy parenting and a denial of children's rights

Back off Grandma!
In many counties, inc Finland that has the highest educational achievement globally, children don't start formal education until aged 7.
There's many ways to skin a cat. Any model that encourages children to want to learn, and to critically analyse what they are learning is fantastic.
Love the fact that their parent have followed what is best for the child, rather than dictates from governments.
look at your sons motivation in this. Is it really about what is best for the children involved?

They are not registered with any educational authority. When they became school age Dil simply did nothing didn't phone the nearest school or the local authority or anything just carried on like she didn't have to

But granypie your son was involved when they were 5 years old so it was HIS decision as well, you are constantly blaming your daughter in law, but it’s your son equally he must have been happy with the situation or he would have put his foot down or even left 2 years ago

All of this midnight business is hearsay you haven’t been involved and only heard about it when he left the family home
Surely if he had been concerned he would have talked to you before, you obviously have a good relationship.

I'm concerned about my gc not having a proper education as unschooling is NOT a proper education it's lazy parenting and a denial of children's rights

I can understand you being concern BUT home schooling and unschooling is recognised by the authorities

I think this is all being drip fed by your son who obviously has a reason for leaving what real evidence do you have that they are up at midnight or that their mum is not doing any work with them you only have what you son is telling you and he is only telling you since he has left his family home QED

"it's lazy parenting"

Yes, starting by your son, ex-dil is secondary here.

Granypie Hi there, I agree there is cause for concern and I know a little about “ no schooling” it’s popular in pockets of the U.K., Brighton being a hotspot.

You need to separate the no schooling from the parenting.
If you think there is neglect or abuse then there may be a case, if the children are well cared for but just lacking an education then a care order is very unlikely to be issued.

I suggest you have a face to face conversation with dil your son and his in-laws.
There may be some middle ground such as the children spending more time with grandparents and father, there are also some really good groups and meet ups for home schooled children.

Do not alienate dil as she currently holds all the cards, at this stage offer support and keep all lines of communication open.

I'm concerned about my gc not having a proper education as unschooling is NOT a proper education it's lazy parenting and a denial of children's rights

In your opinion. You have no proof, from what you’ve told us, it’s only what you’ve been told. If your son wants to change things, then he needs to get off his butt and do something about it.

If you meddle, you’ll be the bad guy and may well end up never seeing the children again. Is that what you want?

I haven't read all of the replies, but just wanted to apologise to granypie for my misunderstanding as pointed out by Bluebelle. Thank you, and I'm sure you know I did not intend to mislead anyone

Granypie if you ever want to see your grandchildren do not interfere. It's unconventional but not against the law. If the children are happy, fed, safe and learning unconventionally then it is not up to you how they are brought up. How would your son feel if he was not allowed to see his children because of your interference? I suspect social services would check they were all of the above things then close the case however your relations and your son's with your DiL and grandchildren would be soured for ever. 7 is still young - some countries don't start formal schooling till then and there have been moves to try that here.

Wow talk about stepping on toes.

What the heck has it got to do with you?

1 - you're the distant grandma. You said it yourself you see them twice a year.

2 - she hasn't done anything wrong. She's more than entitled to follow this form of parenting/education whether or not you agree with it.

If they were growing up in a deprived area their parents would be regarded as neglectful, so I suspect an articulate middle class parent is playing the system and will have the right answers should anyone bother to check. These children are obviously off the radar and I would be worried too, but as others have said, the DiL holds all the cards and believes in a child’s right to be feral.

Did you see your gc once or twice a year before their parents split or after split?

How often does your son see his kids now?

I cannot believe you use a precious visit and time with your gc to gather "proof" against your dil, what a manipulative move

If I were their mother and found out, I would be fuming.

You should take everything you hear with a very large pinch of salt. It’s clear your son - who didn’t seem to have a problem before - wants custody, although why they’d give it to an adult who has moved back in with mummy, I don’t know.

If you report it, it sound like it’s unlikely to go anywhere and it will irreversibly damage your relationship with your GCs.

Granypie, I totally sympathise with you and can fully understand why you are so upset and worried for the children. I would be exactly the same in the circumstances. I would find it difficult to stand back and watch this mess unravel. I cannot understand why on earth "unschooling" is even legal in the UK, what a ridiculous concept. Far too bohemian to be of any use in the long term education of children and very worrying that some people think its an acceptable concept. However it sounds like you are in between a rock and a hard place. Your DIL does not sound like someone who will listen to reason but your DS has to man up and take responsibility for his past part in all this. I think mediation between you all is what is needed, get round a table and talk, including the other grandparents too if they are still alive. If what you say is fact, this is not home schooling and will result in these kids being totally lacking even the basics of literacy. Take care

I went to Summerhill School and as silverlining48 mentioned, I was free to attend classes if I chose. I could also choose to work in the school garden or on the farm, make dens in the woods, potter in the pottery or do a spot of welding in the workshop. By the time I was 16 I could service and drive a car, repair electrical items, plant and grow vegetables, build a bookcase (yes, it sagged a bit) and was a pretty good potter. In all likelihood I would've been able to spend all day on my ipad or phone...if I chose to.
With few academic qualifications I was selected to join the Diplomatic Service where, after 2 years in the FCO in the Private Office of the then Foreign Secretary, I was posted as an attache to the British Embassy in Burma. I have been happily swanning round the world since then.
Not bad for someone who was "unschooled" with fees paid for by the Social Services!!

Granypie, I understand your concern about your grandchildren's lack of education, but it is your son's responsibility to take action, not yours. Presumably he was living with his wife and family when the children were due to start schooling, and connived at the arrangements for his wife to 'home school' them. He should contact the local Education Authority and request an assessment, which may well have implications for custody.
Many countries do not start formal education for children until age seven, but there are very structured programmes for pre-school education in place, focusing on language, communication skills and preparation for learning. Your grandchildren do not appear to be receiving a suitable alternative to formal education, and your son should have taken action earlier if he is concerned. He must also be prepared to take far more responsibility for overseeing their education; is he prepared to do this?

Chapeau

Those life skills are amazing!

Much better than those useless boring classes that added nothing to how life works.
I had the most boring history teachers and all the history I know now is what I have researched as an adult, for example.

Hithere yep, really useful life skills and I'm so lucky to have had that particular style of education (or un-education if you like). I think we could learn a lot from Finland.

It all sounds wonderful to me. I wish I had had the courage to do something similar for my children 30 years ago.

Homeschooling my grandchildren during lockdown has taught me just what possibilities there are when you are not bound by the school bell, school run, national curriculum etc.

Children do not NEED to read by the time they are 7. They do not NEED to be able to do calculations in their head by that age either.

You are risking any relationship you might otherwise have with your grandchildren by trying to impose your narrow view of education on them and their mother.

Support your son in what actions he wants to take by all means, but don't pick a fight with your DiL. If you do everyone will lose.

Chapeau

I went to Summerhill School and as silverlining48 mentioned, I was free to attend classes if I chose. I could also choose to work in the school garden or on the farm, make dens in the woods, potter in the pottery or do a spot of welding in the workshop. By the time I was 16 I could service and drive a car, repair electrical items, plant and grow vegetables, build a bookcase (yes, it sagged a bit) and was a pretty good potter. In all likelihood I would've been able to spend all day on my ipad or phone...if I chose to.
With few academic qualifications I was selected to join the Diplomatic Service where, after 2 years in the FCO in the Private Office of the then Foreign Secretary, I was posted as an attache to the British Embassy in Burma. I have been happily swanning round the world since then.
Not bad for someone who was "unschooled" with fees paid for by the Social Services!!

Gosh, that's an amazing story, Chapeau. I read about Summerhill many many years ago and have often wondered what became of it and it's ideals once the founder died. It's so good to hear a positive report from someone who actually went there.

I certainly can't write anything as positive about my girls' grammar school education. I have always thought it was good but it was never exciting.

wise words GrannyRose.