Calling SS on Tuesday

Chapeau there's always a lot of judgemental rubbish around anything that isn't the norm.

Thanks for posting your positive experience. I feel really defensive when people want to make people adopt a particular form of learning. We forget that schooling as most people know it is still a relatively new way of learning and doesn't suit everyone.

So much negativity and ranting. If a child has been passing as an "ordinary" child for 7 years, why are they suddenly not? I would ask are these children happy, cared for and lively in their own way? If so, give them a break, they are doing ok.

Many homeschoolers learn things at different times because lots of families are child-led.

If you want to be positive (and are worried about reading) you could offer to read to them. That's the way my children learned to read.
At 7+ it's likely to happen quickly.
Try to enjoy your time with them and see if you can add something to their lives.

Good luck.

Their local authority has to keep a register of children who are home schooled. They are visited to assess what they are learning - my good friend is one of those assessors in London. I suggest your son contacts his LEA.

OP, you put all the blame on your DIL. There are two parents and ignoring your DS's role in their upbringing is unfair. Your son has had every opportunity to change this situation and he hasn't, except now they have parted ways he has decided to complain to Mummy.
You may not agree with the way they are educated, and I do totally agree with you, but it is not your place to barge in now and change things.
If your son wishes to he can talk to his wife and discuss the different educational options. Perhaps the children visiting a few schools with the parents and seeing what everyone thinks could be a good first step.
Reporting to SS at this point will just seem vengeful. And unless the children are physically uncared for there is unlikely to be an outcome that is satisfactory to you.
I do understand your concerns but tread carefully.

chapeau what a wonderful story

There is a lot of pressure put on kids and those out of mainstream school do normally have as many or more skills when they are grown
People are afraid of change and your daughter in law sounds unafraid to do things differently
I followed the mass not brave enough to try any alternatives

Its very noticeable that all this has come to your attention SINCE your son has left his wife He obviously was onboard with her style for 7 years until they parted now you are being fed every story under the sun You say yourself you knew nothing before so that screams of your son seeking revenge and bringing all the negatives out now

Either this is revenge or he was a very weak parent for seven years

I understand that you are upset and angry - this goes against the ‘norm’ for you in terms of education . Your son is the one who should be raising concerns though , and really he should be working with his ex partner to look at where there are gaps in his children’s experiences and how he can help to fill them. Un-schooling is legal , and there is no set curriculum , but there would be an expectation at least that basic maths and English are learnt in due course and it does sounds like this is not happening right now in a formal way. However what about other skills such as use of
language and problem solving ? Physical skills too ?
As others have mentioned it would be for the education authorities to consider this within their remit .
Social services have a very high threshold for intervention and their main aim is to keep children at home as this has been overwhelming proven to be in their best interests unless they are at risk of significant harm.
There are many different levels of harm of course and ‘failure to thrive ‘ or ‘ achieve potential’ is also a consideration . But this would elicit support not draconian removal of the children which is a last resort and would never be used in these circumstances
I find it hard to understand why you would wish to remove these children from a loving environment and have them placed in care - or with you. The damage done would be hugely greater than a lack of education and would affect their whole lives more profoundly .
Support your son to work with his family, communicate , nurture the relationships, be compassionate and sympathetic. Work on yourself to get control of this shock and anger. Try to see another perspective even if it is one that you vehemently disagree with.
Otherwise you do risk estrangement and never seeing these children again. What mother would let you near her kids if she thought you were trying to get them removed ?

Chapeau
That’s an amazing experience.
Forty years ago I would have leapt at an opportunity like that for my son.
Severely dyslexic, a real dread of academic work, but very practical and outdoorsy.
We found an independent school that was quite free thinking, but your school would have been a dream for him.

Many countries don't start formal schooling until seven, and those children seem to do very well.

Thank you for all replays

For those saying children start school at 7 in other countries, there is no plan for GC to ever start school, to ever do their exams or gain a qualification

Chapeau that does sound wonderful but now times are different. You can't even sit on a till in Asda without a GCSE to your name and I saw Boots was asking for a C in English. You need a degree to be a nurse and can't get that without an A-C in maths and English. Carpenters and mechanics all need qualifications and a certain level of maths and English or they're unemployable.
If parents do not send they're children to school they do not have to follow any rules they don't even have to speak to any authority, nobody checks, nobody tests and nobody makes sure the children are learning anything. Regardless of how and why this came about for my GC, they are today, here and now not receiving an education that they have the right to and are too young to go out and grab for themselves so therefore it is up to ANY adult who notices this to do something about it.

The first thing I'll be doing on Tuesday, having read replays and looked online, is phoning up their local authority and getting somebody sent round there as currently they don't know my gc even exist and they should know ALL children are out there being homeschooled, unschooled or just not in schools.

Having just read your response this morning, Granypie, I think calling their LA is a good starting point. Hopefully, from there, an assessment will be sought.
Is your son onboard?

I would suggest that you read this;
Elective home education: guidance for parents
from the government website.
Lots of useful information for you.

Granypie - that sounds like a good and measured response . I understand your concern, I would be worried about their future too. Hopefully support and guidance will be given. It may take some time though as due to Covid so many children have fallen behind and I guess the Education Department will be pretty stretched .

The authorities will know of your DC existence, surely?
How can anyone avoid the radar nowadays!
I hope that you get peace of mind Granypie and that your DGC are cared for and loved.

Granypie I m glad you ve come down from ringing SS but it really isn’t your place to ring anyone What is the matter with the son doing it himself are you implying by his absence in all of this that he is a weak person as he seems to have always been happy with the arrangements until he arrived at yours

You say you will get someone round to see them Good luck with that one I be very surprised if anyone will be rushing round
I think there are many ways to teach children and you actually have no idea only hearsay how much or how little the mother is doing
I wouldn’t have wanted to go down the route of home schooling it doesn’t appeal to me at all, but I ve seen many children thrive My own cousin was school phobic long before the term was given credence his parents were far too busy working to do any home schooling and it wasn’t heard of then but he ended up being an art expert buying and selling art work and used by galleries for his knowledge

Good call Granypie in my opinion. Sensible.
Perhaps come back with an update in due course as I’m sure all of us who have responded to your thread would be interested.

Watch it Granypie your DS may have access to his children but if you start causing trouble your DIL could very well stop you seeing them.
As far as questioning the children goes my GS who is 6, andin school could very well not answer, say he doesn't know or just ignore me if I turned up after a long abscence and started firing questions at him.
If your DS is worried he needs to discuss this with his ex. And you need to stay out of it. There are subtler ways to help the children than calling SS who won't do anything unless the children are in a very bad situation.

I’d be very surprised if anyone in the LA would discuss a child over the phone. Neither should they discuss a child with anyone except a parent. Both would be serious breaches of confidentiality.

It must be your son who takes action.

So you’re doing this....and not their father. The adult man.

Again. Says plenty.

I can hear how worried and shocked you are Granypie. I would worry too!
Formal main stream schooling does not fit well for all children and families. I have a friend who is now ( after the school system failed her eldest 2) is homeschooling her children using the ‘unschooling’ philosophy. All of them can read and are very active and independent. They get out and about a lot and learn from experience. The eldest child was due to sit GCSEs locally ( after having a part time tutor provided by the LA to prepare him) but with Covid exam cancellations, I’m not sure how that worked out! I’m just saying as I understand it, if done properly to give opportunities for learning from experience, ‘ unschooling’, whilst unconventional can suit some families. My friend ( and others I know home schooling more formally) chose homeschooling to suit their children’s needs not out of laziness, so you may be wise to gently try and understand why your d.s. went down this road! Presumably it was because your ds and dil thought it was the best way for the children to develop at the time other families were applying for nursery and school places. Take time to understand it.

It seems to me that for 7 years you have happily ignored these children. I always knew which nursery and school my GCs were in but apparently you didn't realise yours were being unschooled. You now seem determined to cause as much upset as possible on the basis you claim that the children have a right to an education. Why not stop being so agressive, leave the autorities out of it, tell your DS to ask the children to stay for weekends and teach them a few things yourself. I don't know what you think will happen if the LA step in but your GCs and your DiL are going to get very upset. And you may suffer because of that,

I have always known my gc were homeschooled what I did not know was that this was what was happening. Not all grandparents live near GC or have a hands on role this does not make them any less grandparents than those who do.

Homeschool and this unschooling are not the same thing.

And tbh I don't care what it says to whom about what my gc need help now and it's urgent. I'll deal with judgement later if I'm bothered about what people think of me and my son as people.

From what I've read the LA will be in touch with them immediately to arrange a meeting to see what the children are doing and should they not like it they have the power to place them in a school right away.

I would think that whoever you phone will tell you that it is nothing to do with you.

If your son is really concerned about the children then he needs to get a suitable home and apply for custody. Telling his mother he does not like their upbringing is not the way to behave.

If your son is really concerned about the children then he needs to get a suitable home and apply for custody

Exactly. Then he’d have to actually DO something. And urgh isn’t that just so much effort when he can whine and moan about his Ex instead.

Granypie what you have read and what actually happens in practice is very different. The LA will put your GCs on a list for assessment, when that assessment comes will depend on their staffing levels (most are understaffed). After the assessment they will meet with the parents and discuss any concerns, the parents will then be able to continue home schooling if they wish with a date set for a second assessment to see if the problems have been addressed. An LA would only insist children attended school against a parent's wishes if they were sure firstly that it was in the child's best interests and secondly that the parent would comply with the instruction. Not much use placing a child in a school if the child is unhappy or if the parent won't take him there.
Really you would be better negotiating rather than reporting.

Granypie LAs have no legal powers to compel children to attend school. Education is the legal responsibility of the parents.

There is guidance for LAs, who should have their own individual policies in regard to education outside the school system.

If there appears to be cause for concern the LA may seek to open a discussion with the parents, not any other relative.
In this scenario the weight is given to what the parents have decided and the LA would have to initiate a process to show that the children were not receiving an education.

But no, the LA can’t just decide they don’t like what they see and place the children in a school. They do not have the legal power to do that or the right.

I fear you are going to be disappointed in what you think will happen. Especially since your son has been agreeable to this form of education for a number of years. He will have to show why he now thinks it has become unsuitable, what has changed.

In every case discussion between parents and the LA is the first step and mediation between parents if necessary. There is no role for grandparents in these discussions. Your son must be the one to take action.

You are out of order granypie) it is not your call at all and yes *trisher is right two of my grandkids live in NZ you can’t get much further away but I used to get photos, school reports, and school photos, drawn pictures etc so nothing to do with distance

Here’s my question of the day ?

Why has all this only become a problem since your son has left his wife Ask yourself this question and give yourself an honest answer