Calling SS on Tuesday

OP

You are using the legal system to force your dil to do what you want, even remove custody time from her.

This very very very rarely ends well.
With your actions, you choose your consequences.

In my opinion, and I understand that it is only my opinion, that sounds far too unstructured. However, your view of a proper education sounds positively archaic! Education is far more than sitting at a table with a text book as a 7 year old. Ofsted inspectors would fail a school whose teachers thought that was acceptable.

lovelycuppa we are only getting the story of how much or how little schooling the children get, through a man who went along with it all for 7 years until he left home, and is now revving his mother up to action

This isn’t fair on the mother, the wife, or the children

The poster doesn’t often see the children (once or twice a year) so apart from the one conversation when she tested them she has no idea what the mother does with them or what they are capable of
at the tender age of 7
Shopping can become a maths lesson
Walking in the woods can be a science or nature lesson
Colouring and cooking both mentioned can be used as learning tools if done properly
The mother might be a useless hippy who does nothing but sit and watch TV all day while the children run riot or she may be teaching them many life skills that they would know nothing of in mainstream school, the poster doesn’t know, she is just being sent in a tizz by her newly separated son

I think you really must step back or you may be stopped from seeing the GC altogether. Your son had years to discuss and sort this out, he must have gone along with it. It is for him to speak to his ex but if he hasn't up to now not sure he will. If he thinks something should be done about it let him sort it out. Like you I would be worried that they don't appear to be able to read and write anything but is this true maybe they just didn't want to oblige you.

May I ask why they split?

I don’t think it’s a case of “how little schooling the children get”.

Unschooling is a way of learning through life. I know John Holt called it that, but mostly it’s just one way to home-educate. There are many versions of child-led learning and each family will find the way that suits them best.

My children learned in a broadly “unschooled” way (though I hate the phrase) and it was truly not a cop out.

My fear of stepping into this much-criticised territory drove me to insist on some “conventional” learning. All my children learned a language and they all did some maths. BUT the rest of the time we were facilitators.

Maybe your daughter-in-law and son have been facilitating learning (as we did) but with more confidence that the maths would come? Maybe you should find this out?
My daughter’s little childhood friend who was truly “unschooled” went on to study physics with maths - that is still his passion.

Children love to learn, it has been a privilege to facilitate my children’s learning journey. All the negativity here is deeply depressing.

I know a young man who was unschooled and was certainly not neglected in any way by his parents, but his interests were nurtured and he is extremely talented in his particular area. Yes, he might not have been able to read at seven but this hasn’t held him back or stopped him from choosing to go to school as he’s got older where he hasn’t experienced any academic or social difficulties. And he hasn’t been disadvantaged by not having routine inflicted upon him. It’s not something I would have the confidence to do with my own child and I admire his parents’ commitment.

MineCraft is used in some educational establishments. During the big lockdown last year my then eight year old daughter spent a lot of time playing it, practising her creative, coding and mathematical skills - she researched things, created worlds, videoed them and emailed them to her teacher. To be honest she’d have been better off doing that this last lockdown rather than becoming disengaged with Zoom lessons.

It’s not something that you agree with - no doubt my own mother didn’t agree with me breastfeeding until my daughter decided to stop, or agreed with me about bed sharing or a million other things - but by crikey she knows better than to put her oar in. And so should you.

I understand that "unschooling" just means learning without a curriculum but based on the children's interests. It must be difficult accepting that the children's mother has a very different view of education but it doesn't necessarily mean that the children will come to any harm and there's a growing number of children who are home schooled and also "unschooled" The link below gives guidance on home schooling which you might like to read but basically any parent can decide to home school, doesn't have to notify the LA and can choose what to teach or what not to teach.I understand that you are very concerned for your GKs but tbh it's not your responsibility and you are powerless to intervene unless you thought there was a safeguarding issue.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/791528/EHE_guidance_for_parentsafterconsultationv2.2.pdf

Did any one else see Summerhill School featured on Great British Railway Journeys at 18.30 tonight on BBC2?
Fascinating to hear current students talk about their life there and wonderful archive photographs of school life.
Also interesting, it was stated that those who chose to apply to University 'got there' but 'in their own way'. Seemingly articulate, grounded and mature students, judging by the interview.
A real eye-opener.

I understand your concerns Granypie I'm sure I'd feel the same if they were my GC but I've just googled unschooling and it is legal in the UK.

I did ixion and thought what it was a coincidence.
My DBiL was a pupil at Monkton Wyld school which, like Summerhill was a progressive school in Dorset. (he turned out fine)
I taught for a few years at the Rudolph Steiner school although couldn't afford to send our own DC there and they didn't want to be different so it may not have been a good thing for them.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_education

There was the small school at Hartland, Devon begun by Satish Kumar. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Small_School
Often these places were started experimentally but the successful ideas were taken up by mainstream education.
I have known a few families who home schooled for various reasons but the unschool idea is new to me, I must admit. Far from being lazy, anyone who decides to educate their own DC is brave and energetic.

Many thanks to everyone for the positive and interesting responses to my Summerhill post.
Ixion Like those ex-Summerhill School students, I too went to university and “got there” in my own way…eventually. After leaving the Diplomatic Service and raising two kids, it was time to get a degree. When I left university I had enough qualifications to ensure a career where I could return to “swanning about the world”. I am now a retired university professor. The timing of my decision to get a ‘formal’ education in my 30s was just right…for me.
Granypie In my response to Ixion (above) you will see that, despite being “unschooled”, I have achieved academic success, held prestigious career positions, travelled the world and generally had a good time. I am not an exception. I spent nearly two years at a girls grammar school before I went to Summerhill. It was the most miserable period of my childhood and I believe my life would have been quite different if I’d been forced to stay in that environment for another 5 years.
The real point though is that like me, your grandchildren can have a formal education any time they choose. In fact universities encourage mature students who have a wealth of experience in non-academic fields. There are so many easily accessible routes into formal education at every level so why don’t you just leave well alone. Your grandchildren will be fine if you would just let them adjust to their current situation with care and understanding. They’re only seven years old for heaven’s sake and you want to upset them even more. It’s not your DIL who needs reporting!

Chapeau with all respect, despite your final statement not being respectful to me, you are talking about very different times to today.

When I look at the jobs I had and the house I bought from my earnings back then and look at today's generation and how they'd be lucky to rent a bedsit on what I had.

Good for you that you did all of that I'm glad you enjoyed it and I'm glad you enjoy your retirement but these are very different times perhaps you're too busy swanning with your eyes shut

I may also add that you were NOT unschooled by what today's unschooling is choosing if you go to a lesson or not is not the same as what parents who unschool do

Granypie Unschooling is a bit more complicated than that, and there is a genuine theory and pedagogy behind it. I can’t say for certain that your son and DIL have been doing it ‘properly’ so to speak, but you can’t judge it based on a few articles that your (rather bitter by the sounds of things) son has showed you.

Well it's a good job I'm not doing that then. What my gc is getting is by no means an education and of it is then the LA will ok them.

It's the university education that depresses me now.
Schools, whatever ethos they have, are one thing but Universities are expensive and churn out too many young people who have little hope of a career in their chosen field and few practical skills.

DH and I hosted over 200 young, and not so young, people from around the world through HelpX. over 13 years.

A most interesting and memorable young man was from a restricted religious community in USA who had never been to school but he had a natural intelligence and confidence many lack.

Good post Grammaretto education is wider than school.

It would be interesting if OP could let us know what the LEA say/do.

Children have a right to some form of education. Homeschooling has become quite trendy in recent years and children being home schooled should be registered with their local authority. I know in my very large LA there is only one person responsible for supervising home schooling. She visits the family once a year which gives a clear signal that home schooled children can be left to their own devices for very long periods of time.
Many home schooled children do not get good grades at formal exams and find it difficult to enter a competitive work place or higher education. There is a lot of catching up to do,
I have never heard of unschooling and as such would see it as a form of neglect. Some parents have had an unhappy experience of school and therefore feel they are being 'kind' in sparing their child this experience. I know a home schooled child who is now 19, has no qualifications and cannot find work. He has poor social skills and spends all his time playing video games, just the same as any other teenager. He knows nothing about caring for the planet.

keepingquiet I’d love to see the evidence for this?

Sorry, I mean the evidence that shows that many home educated children do not get good grades at formal exams and find it difficult to enter a competitive work place or higher education.

Well, Granypie, I bet you’re glad you came on here to ask for advice.

Some of the replies beggar belief. I wonder if those posting them are anywhere near as rude and intrusive face to face as they are from behind their keyboards.

I can understand your concern, but as has been said there are many routes to learning and it could be that the children are well and happy and thriving in their own way. I’m very surprised though that there has been no Local Authority involvement at all in 2 or 3 years, and it seems only sensible to get in touch with them. I do agree with those who say the call should be made by your son though, not by you.

As Lucca says, it would be interesting to hear what their response is.

"Some of the replies beggar belief. I wonder if those posting them are anywhere near as rude and intrusive face to face as they are from behind their keyboards. "

Well said, Maggiemaybe. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is appalled by the rudeness shown by some people. There's just no need for it!

If a child has never attended school and you have never applied for a school place you do not need to inform the local authority about homeschooling. This is perfectly legal.

This is because the law here is that the parents are responsible for seeing that their child receives an education.
They can do this in one of two ways perfectly legally.

either by regular attendance at school, or otherwise

If you choose to send your child to school, you, as parent (or guardian) are responsible for actually getting your child to the school. You have basically (when requesting a place) given over your responsibility to educate your child to the government. If you choose the “otherwise” route, you can choose how you do it.

This is the nub of the law. The “otherwise” part allows for home-education, being taught by a private tutor or whatever.

The next line of the law says this education must be suitable to the child’s age ability and aptitude, and any special educational needs they may have. So you need to take each individual child into consideration.

The fact is, if a child is learning things which are suitable and in line with their age ability and aptitude, you are in fact compliant with the law. That’s it.
You don’t need to tell anyone when you are driving on the left, when you are not abusing your partner, when you are, in fact, obeying the law.

Hope this helps. I know if you aren’t familiar with home education it sounds odd but actually the law puts education in the hands of the parent. Interestingly, most people choose to give this up.