Are we being unreasonable?

Hithere

Offering help is not the problem- it is welcome and appreciated

The issue is when the helper puts conditions how this help is given

Some conditions may be reasonable
Others not so much

When the helpee (new word) finds this help to be more work for them compared to not having the help - it is not really worth it

I don't know what part of the world you live in ,but every single GP I know who gives childcare does so at the request of the parents. To then lay down "conditions" for that requested, free of charge help, is outrageous in my opinion.
If you asked a work colleague for lifts into work because you cannot afford a car, would you feel it was reasonable to lay down conditions regarding that arrangement? That you can only travel in a certain make of car , that they should only drive your preferred route, that they should change their start time to fit in with you? Of course not, this is no different.

normandygirl that’s not at all a similar situation

NormandyGirl, your experience of grandparents giving childcare is exactly the same as mine. Both with grandparents in our own circle of friends and the grandparents in our adult children’s wide circle of friends. Parents need and want to work. Childcare is expensive, so parents arrange part time nursery, part time grandparents.
It’s family life, parents continuing to lovingly support their adult children and enjoying time with grandchildren. None of that changes reality - unpaid army of carers. Those carers often in their 70’s so energy and fitness levels different than they were 30 years ago. Most people involved know all of this. We get some cold and critical responses on this kind of thread. Thankfully, a minority.

My experience is similar to Normandygirl and Iam64. Grandparents are helping with care out of love for their own children. Of course they will try to follow parents wishes as far as possible, particularly with regard to safety (proper car seats etc) but after that they are trusted to make reasonable choices about taking children out etc, without having to consult parents every time.

As a professional childminder I often provide shared care alongside the children's grandparents.
Usually it's because the parents are conscious they don't want to "put upon" the grandparents.

There's no conflict of interest as we all work as a team.
We also cover when each other is on holiday or unavailable, eg one lovely grandma had a knee replacement operation so was out of action for quite a while. I had the child on her days until she was fit again.

Some of the grandparents are my age and some are younger. One or two are older.

Summerlove

normandygirl that’s not at all a similar situation

Why is it not similar?
When you ask someone to do you a favour that will result in them giving you their unpaid time and resources, you have no right to put "conditions" on how they give their help.
Before you say that childcare is different because of safety concerns, if the parents don't have faith in the GP's to be responsible and trustworthy caregivers to start with, they shouldn't be asking for their help at all.

summerlove is right, that analogy doesn't work

Maybe if you changed it to "I will let you use my car while I am unable to drive it as long as you also give me a lift to work and don't ramp up the milegage"

The children are the responsibility of the parents. It is literally their job to ensure they are well looked after. If you aren't willing to follow their rules, they find alternate arrangements.

Simple

And if I babysit, I will always ask if I can take them out somewhere I want to go. If the answer is no, it is no.

If it is a somewhere I need to go, the understanding is that I can only babysit if I can take them there.

That's how it works both ways.

If we'd been able to be GP's that's how I'd have envisaged it Iam, helping out but not being weighed down with looking after our GC.

That's how it was for our boys' GP's and our GP's.

if the parents don't have faith in the GP's to be responsible and trustworthy caregivers ti start with, they shouldn't be asking for their help at all I agree Normandygirl. Our boys' GP's didn't ask for permission for every little thing, and I wouldn't have expected them too.

If they decided to take them out at the last minute and we didn't know until after the event, it was never an issue.

People are different

You can't expect to apply your feelings, your comfort or your wants to another and have that automatically work out.

But if you meet people where they are, you show yourself trustworthy and that is something you can build on in time.

I find it unacceptable to think my wants come before my AC needs to know precisely where their children are, what they are eating.

I felt huge responsibility keeping my own children safe, knowing where they were and that they weren't eating sweets or drinking fizzys, but also worried about the traffic on M11.

I assume my daughters feel the same.

I won't be testing the theory that GP may take children where they choose, feed them as they choose, or anything else I read here.

I can't imagine why advising what GP is doing is difficult. Babysitting is very difficult, far harder than speaking.

Just ask.

I agree Norah but it didn't come across to me that the OP was wanting her wants to come before her son's, d's.i.l. or GC's needs.

If my adult children felt they’d been neglected, abused, stuffed with sweets rather than good food, I’m assuming they wouldn’t want their own children left in my car. My guess is that’s the same for most people.

The conflict in the contributions here, is that some posters assume grandparents are primarily concerned to meet their own needs. That is true of some but in no way representative of the majority.

Two if my young grandchildren have just been picked up by their other grannie. She’s taking over care till their parents get back tomorrow, I’d have loved to have them over night again but we have to leave by 7am for a medical appointment.

We are a very ordinary extended family.

The simple fact that this thread has become a disagreement is proof that people have different expectations...

So if some people are giving the advice that, it is a good idea to respect the parents wishes in regards to their own children... what are those people getting out of giving that advice?

Well, the truth is nothing

The advice is at it is because it recognises that parents have responsibility for their children above all others and that challenging that may damage the relationship.

So I don't see the point in disagreeing with that and risking the OPs relationship.

Other AC are going to be different

Other family dynamics are going to be different

There isn't a wrong or right within people's highly individual relationships

What matters is that we don't push our expectations on people who want to do things differently.

If that doest suit, we say no.

It's simple

Smileless2012

I agree Norah but it didn't come across to me that the OP was wanting her wants to come before her son's, d's.i.l. or GC's needs.

OP said "They have been fairly strict since the beginning- fair enough, their child but mostly around taking him out.

Sounds as if they do have their own needs, to me.

"I’ve always had to ask permission even to go for a walk."

She didn't say what the row was about, but she does imply, I think, that she'd rather not have such restrictions.

She elaborates in her later posts as to what she wants. I'd not want to babysit away from my housework either, but that's not a choice for GP, is it?

Her choice is to say "No, that's not something I want to do.

Or perhaps fewer restrictions. A GP having to ask for permission to take the GC they're looking after out for a walk seems OTT to me, but as you say Norah, the OP can say no if the arrangements don't suit her and if she does, hopefully she'll still see her son and his family.

VioletSky

summerlove is right, that analogy doesn't work

Maybe if you changed it to "I will let you use my car while I am unable to drive it as long as you also give me a lift to work and don't ramp up the milegage"

The children are the responsibility of the parents. It is literally their job to ensure they are well looked after. If you aren't willing to follow their rules, they find alternate arrangements.

Simple

I'm afraid that analogy implies that the parent is doing the GP's a big favour in " allowing" them look after their child.
You are talking as if it's the GP's who have asked the parents if they can look after their GC for several days a week. I don't know a single GP for whom that is the case. They have been asked to do this favour by the parents who either cannot or just don't want to pay for childcare, not the other way round. They have been asked to do a really hard job that is physically, emotionally and financially draining to a lot of GP's who thought they would be relaxing and enjoying their well earned retirement by now. They do it because they love their children and respond to their cries for help as we are hardwired to do. To have that help subject to unreasonable conditions and rules, that make that agreement to help even harder to do benefits no one, least of all the children.

Well your analagy doesnt work and i have tried to demonstrate why, if mine doesnt work either its because it is a dsft analogy in the first place and a baby is not a car and a grandlarent is not a work colleague.

What you are saying now... that's not healthy either normandygirl

It works both ways

We shouldn't be setting ourselves on fire to keep others warm and that's not a healthy expectation of a grandparent.

But the example here is the OP wants this day a week with the grandchild and has now lost it.

Do you think, OP saying "some people on gransnet agree with me and you are unreasonable, so let me do what I like with my grandchild" is really going to work here?

This is beginning to remind me of the monty python sketch about the short argument or the full hour?

Smileless2012 - if you know rural UK - (and if you are from the UK I'm sure you do) you will recognise that some country roads can be quite dangerous to walk along.

Unfortunately I feel we don't have enough info to be offering an opinion on what is reasonable and what isn't as regards walking.

Obviously their fear is that you will take baby out along some remote country lane and a car will kill you both. This is quite logical in this day and age, very different to when you were bringing your son up probably. If you want to carry on caring for your GS then just do as they ask, convenient or not.

I'd have thought that a GM who managed to raise her own children, would know where it is or isn't safe to go for a walk with her GC.

Sometimes when I read these threads, I think its a miracle that so many of us managed to bring up our children safely. Child rearing practices change but common sense, is common sense.

Smileless2012

I'd have thought that a GM who managed to raise her own children, would know where it is or isn't safe to go for a walk with her GC.

Sometimes when I read these threads, I think its a miracle that so many of us managed to bring up our children safely. Child rearing practices change but common sense, is common sense.

I agree, it is a miracle.

What’s even more of one is how, with better safety features and knowledge, the child mortality rate has gone down from one generation to the next.

At one point it was common sense to hold the baby in the car. Or to put them to sleep on their stomachs, or to feed them homemade formula. Or to put whiskey on their gums.

Common sense changes

I wouldn't say that doing any of the things you've mentioned was common sense, common practice maybe. That said not taking a baby out along a some remote country lane where a car (could) kill you both, is common sense.

Common sense is doing things with the knowledge available at the time.

It's sound judgement

So yes it changes and if you don't change with it you are risking a babies life for what? Pride because that is how you did things?