Do I approach my son and DIL about their lifestyle and parenting issues?

utoparium you say you might not come back on here is that a veiled way of saying your wife ‘ has advised ‘ you not to engage if so that is decisive treatment and however funny kind, caring she is she has issues that aren’t good and will effect your your grandson and others she comes into contact with

NO ONE is a pin expert on child care even child care experts get it wrong sometimes let’s get that clear

She is I m afraid kindly and gently Coercing you

Lastly it is VERY VERY rare to get full agreement on GN threads This time you have 100% posts telling you your wife is wrong for heavens sake listen

Hi utopiarun I hope you have carried on reading. I have every sympathy with your wife for her troubled childhood and I have absolutely no doubt that she has good and relevant experience...

BUT...when it comes to your own family ones professional training cant always overcome the depth of personal reactions in situations.

The field I'm most familiar is in Mental Health and numberless professionals have had counselling themselves, and its not uncommon for doctors not to look after their own health, or for nurses to give out and give out until they get ill......

when it comes to your own family what yo have learnt and what you have done is NOT always strong enough to overcome the powerful overwhelming feelings inside. It is very complicated by there being two grandmas in the mix. I beg you to stand firm, like everyone has said, unless you truly see neglect and danger.

Good day, I'm back. Yesterday was tough. I wanted to put the negativity to rest but every time I tried she came back to me with criticisms of my DiL. Over and over, I said this is 3 days in a row we are having the same discussion. We agreed, DiL is not going to be voted mother of the year. Both parents like to play video games and my gs spends time with his ipad. She said he is being raised by tv and an ipad. Honestly I don't know any kids that aren't watching videos all the time. My kids watched Sesame Street, etc all the time. We go to the restaurant and all the kids have devices to keep them distracted. This is the way things are now. It's not Little House on the Prairie where the mom stays home and cooks and cleans etc with the kids while the dad works the farm. At least not in NYC! I sent her a link from Parents magazine yesterday about typical 4 year old behavior and she said it was insulting (as is going on this forum) as it doesn't tell the full story about a mother who likes to go out with her friends. Do I think my DiL goes out too often? Yes. . But my son for the most part is there to take care of my gs. Is she a great mom? probably not, but we all have circumstances. Besides having a stressful job, my DiL lost both her parents in one year following the birth of my gs so she has gone though tough times. And yes, my wife has been going to therapy for many years. Her issue (sorry to belabor the point) is that DiL doesn't put her son first and it's going to end up poorly for him. She says "who advocates for him". I'm aiming for a day of peace here as my anxiety has been through the roof the past few days. Thanks for your support.

Dear utopiarun, you are between a rock and a hard place, aren't you?

You wife is vulnerable on the very point - childhood - that you are trying to deal with. It's very possible she is, as one could say, over-identifying with him. Feeling what she perceives as neglect because it pushes all her own painful buttons.
I speak from experience: however much therapy one has done, there are always issues where I will have "blind spots", where I see something thats just too "close to home" emotional wise.

She will almost certainly be familiar with the psychological idea of "good-enough" parenting. that is to say, that the parenting has not been ideal but it has had ENOUGH stability and love and acceptance of the child ie, your GS, to thrive.

So that means both mum and dad's and your love and acceptance and hopefully both grandmas.

Of course it has put your anxiety through the roof, but fwiw, my opinion is it would be worse if one of the grandmas cause antagonism or a split. And tbh, I think that it might be harder for your wife in the medium term.

Its horrible feeling so anxious but I don't think there is a quick fix but enduring.

BlueBelle Lastly it is VERY VERY rare to get full agreement on GN threads This time you have 100% posts telling you your wife is wrong for heavens sake listen

Indeed.

I predict not listening will lead to "estranged and I have no idea why" -- GN is replete with such posts.

Does your son think his wife goes out too much? If he's happy with the situation and is happy to care for his son it's no-one else's business really, whatever we may think is right or what we did as young parents.

I wonder if your grandson senses your wife's disapproval and that's why he doesn't relate well to her?

All you can do is love him, as you obviously do, care for him when you can and use that time to sit and eat together, talk and listen to him, read books with him, take him out for some fresh air, whatever you think he needs and would enjoy.
But don't speak critically of his parents in front of him, and certainly not to them directly.

Did your wife have kids?
Is your son her son too or is it the son with your exwife?

Your wife must call her therapist and organize an emergency session - right now

If she won't do it, you would need to call the therapist and inform him/her so they can assess the situation

Her obsession with how the gc is raised, dil not being a good mom and your wife's disconnection with reality is going to escalate and create issues.

I hope she does not call dil directly and takes matters into her own hands.

I do not think there are any grandparents who do not at times think "I would not have done it like that." But it is an irrelevance. As long as the children are loved and not in danger then there is no role for the grandparents except to be loving and supportive.

There is no problem in not putting a child first - they have to fit in with family and society and cannot always be first. Your GS's mother going out to enjoy herself is just fine. If she were out drinking every night and neglecting to make sure her son was cared form then there would be a problem. But it seems that is not the case here.

Oh grampa you sound lovely caring man and obviously stick in the middle, no, no, do not interfere it will not end well, and no disrespects to your wife but what difference does it make how many years she’s been in education, it means zilch! So what do you and your ex wife intend saying! I know what I would say back! He’s not yours, how they live their life is up to them, the cat scenario isn’t ideal but probably immune to smells you said he’s bright, he’s fed ok , not every child when small want to eat certain foods, I rember one of mine didn’t one of four, I actually took him to the drs my first child telling her he’s going to starve I can only get him to eat rice crispies and fish fingers, she laughed and said so be it, he’s mow 6 Ft 5 man still fussy but not eating like that any more ? his children do love fish fingers though, I’m afraid they will see your advise as interfering and not thinking that they can look after him properly, he doesn’t sound like he is in any danger, if you do put your oar in they will lock horns and you could be outed

Stuck not stick

I have 6 grandchildren. I recall one lying on the street screaming and drumming his heels because I wouldn't carry him. I sat on a wall while he continued for 30 minutes. Passersbyby just smiled understandingly at me. It is my house my rules. We looked after him two days each week. Sometimes he was grandad's boy and wouldn't look at me. It would eventually pass and yes it hurt me. He is now 7 and is a delightful child. Kind and biddable.
We don't have issues with his parenting. Some things we don't agree with But we ignore these.
He is not our child!!

If your grandson is safe then stay out of it.
He is not your child, your wife's child, or your ex wife's child.

May I ask does your wife take an opportunity to play with him or join in when you play with him. Does she kick a ball with him or play hide and seek, build a den under the table?
Would she take him out alone to the park. Go for ice cream. Anything on a one to one basis to encourage interaction.
It may take time.
But I repeat, do not interfere. And even if asked for an opinion on something you should choose your words carefully and never sound critical.

I'm sorry you are in such an awful situation.
Your wife needs to back off. And to do so she needs to understand that this must not affect your own relationship.

Sorry but your wife saying she’s an expert in child development makes me smile, then she should realise that not all children are the same, I think she has the problem grampa I don’t mean that nastily but she’s not looking at this situation rationally! If I remember I’m sure I read another post quite a while ago similar to this post, about a grandfather having trouble with his wife dictating!

utopiarun I can see why this is stressing you! I think you need to say to your wife that enough discussion has taken place. That you do not think it would be helpful to raise anything with the parents. That the little boy is behaving like a normal 4-year-old. That if problems arise in the future, you will both support as much as you can within the wishes of the parents. That you will continue to support them now within the wishes of the parents

And then discuss with her the link between her worries and anxieties and her own childhood and encourage her to discuss these with her therapst.

Good luck

Hi, again thanks for the comments and reassurance. Some background, my wife has 2 children of her own, both had troubled childhoods (therapy, meds, etc) but one is a doctor now and the other a police officer. She does spend quality time with my gs, will take him for ice cream, does crafts and puts puzzles together with him so she does connect with him. It's just that when grampa is there he wants me. My son was the same way with me. My gs loves his daddy and mommy but sometimes can act out to his mother. My wife sees that as he doesn't have a good connection with women and that will be an issue down the road. last week he said he didn't want me! When I started chasing him he laughed and all was good. To be honest my wife had issues of abandonment her whole life so when my gs says he doesn't want her she gets sad. He has issues with transitioning from dad to grampa etc but is that abnormal? The decision I made yesterday is that I am not going to say anything to them. I know my wife won't, she respects the boundaries. She is a good woman and loves my gs, she just is hanging on to this. BTW, my son hasn't said a word about his wife going out. He seems to be OK we have a good relationship and I told him if he needs to talk I am here. Thanks again everyone!

maybe you could offer to go over to their house to babysit etc, just you, to get a bit of peace and space.
good luck.

Sounds the best outcome Well done Gramps you ve quietly been assertive in the situation without causing trouble Stick to your guns and praise your wife when she dies little things with him that are successful
Keep any critics m well and truly zipped and don’t think for one minute we re all virtuous I bet we ve all made mistakes with grown up kids it’s really hard to change the role from looking after to having no say

Well done you.

What BlueBelle said too

btw

"He has issues with transitioning from dad to grampa etc but is that abnormal?

I think kids are too inconsistent at 4 for it to be remarkable?

They both work full time, mum is sensible and takes time off to pursue her hobbies, life is enriched with pets and the child is fed things theybwill actuallybeat at 4... sound like great parents to me

utopiarun well done for finding a way through. And I suggest reassuring your wife as soon as she raises any "issues" and moving on, rather than long discussions

Madgran77 haha easier said than done!

Crikey. Yes of course, do confront your son and DIL about their lifestyle - if you secretly long to be shot of them and your grandchild forevermore!

I can't help thinking that although your wife has worked in education for many years she must have worked in some supplementary role which didn't require any knowledge of child development.

For her to say that she "has seen these signs before and it can be dangerous" is an extreme judgement of what - as you've described it - is entirely natural behaviour for a 4 year old child. In all honesty and with no desire to be hurtful, I think it's your wife who is close to behaving dangerously.

Your ex-wife too hasn't the right to interfere or judge so long as the child is well and happy. She had her child/ren and brought them up the way she thought was fit: this is not her child, nor her "do-over" and your son and DIL would quite rightly be enraged and probably hurt if she had the gall to criticise their parenting.

I found it interesting that at one point you said "His mother likes to go out to concerts (she's a bit of a free spirit)". That sounds to me as though you're judging her by standards that, quite frankly, died out for most folks in the 1960's/70's.

She's an adult woman, whom you yourself state works in a very demanding job, and she has every right to relax in any legal way she chooses. And of course, if they still love one another, she and your son like to go out together.

That does NOT however mean that you and your wife "have to watch him once every two weeks, sometimes overnight."

You're absolutely within your rights to tell your son & DIL that that doesn't work for you - eg it's too tiring; ties you down too much; makes you feel taken for granted - whatever your problem with it is. Then they can do what all those people who don't have parents around them do; they can find a babysitter.

It's a pity your wife finds it all so upsetting. Some grandparents would kill to see their grandchildren every two weeks, whilst others care for theirs 5 days a week while their child works.

As to the cats, please don't worry. I brought up my son with 16 cats and he was just fine.

utopiarun

Madgran77 haha easier said than done!

I know but worth a try. Listen to her comments, repeat back so she knows you have heard, tell her that you still feel as you do re the best way forward. If she carries on tell her you have heard but will not discuss further.

I do know that's not easy but your version of tge principles I have described woukd at least be a way of shutting down the stress well you are on.

And enjoy your GS!

Just tell you wife you love her for her concern but the subject is closed for now AND STICK TO THAT You can love and nurture your damaged wife without playing into her insecurities.in fact that is what she needs someone to love and understand her but have strict boundaries so her own life doesn’t spill over into a new generation
Reassure her you will be vigilant but for now you are happy everything is alright if different to what she would like to see

She wants the old fashioned childhood that she didn’t have

Well done, you, OP. You've negotiated some tricky waters successfully and listened to what others have to say. Clearly your wife is a woman of firm views. I would take issue ( slightly) with her being a child development expert: she was a speech therapist . I am a retired Early Years teacher, lecturer, and former governor of a special school. I wouldn't call myself an expert of speech difficulties.
However, you have managed to avoid the pitfalls, here, so take heart- being a grandparent is a privilege you can, now, continue to enjoy.