It's back: Morning Depression feeling...and worse

Rowan. Sending you a big big (((((((HUG))))))) I like you, I like your take on life. I'v posted on here about my feelings of horrible jealousy. But they are that, just feelings, not facts. Your not horrible to people are you. We can all think as we like. Our thoughts are our own. I'd be hung if people knew my thoughts. I think I had a period of depression at about the same time as you. So I can well understand your thought processes. I seemed to see only the dark side of everything and everybody. I remember thinking "I'm never talking to so& so again, they haven't supported me, they only think of themselves. Etc etc" it really made me feel worse but I couldn't help it. It wouldn't stop. As for counting my blessing because other people were much worse off than me. That really was unhelpful because I then thought what a selfish shit I was. I'm feeling a lot better now. I still often have days when I wake up feeling low. It's scary because I immediately think I'm getting ill again. I worry it will come back. It's such an awful illness. I'm due to go on holiday soon and I too am worried about spoiling it because my anxiety levels are still very near the surface. My husband has no insight at all lucky him. So finds it difficult to understand. I talked to him yesterday. More as a warning rather than looking for support from him. The thing that helps me the most is breathing slowly and keep reminding myself that these are my feelings and in fact nothing awful is going to happen. But that's hard when these feelings engulf you. I hope you feel better soon. Don't be so hard on yourself, your not as horrible as you think.

Thank you all so much. I am amazed and so grateful for the lovely people on Gransnet. I don't feel quite so alone, and I'm certain many others feel the same way.

Kiora, I can identify with so much of what you say - counting your blessings has often had the effect of making me feel even more guilty and ashamed for being so selfish. You're right, it is an awful illness. It's not visible to others, and we feel we have to protect others from ourselves. It's the jealousy I find hardest to deal with of all my issues - the German term for it is Gluckschmerz and its counterpart is schadenfreude (to which I also plead guilty). I try hard to be as supportive as I can to others - friends and family - but when they begin to improve and regain their equilibrium, somehow that makes me feel worse (that makes NO sense at all, does it?)
I don't have these feelings about either of my daughters though - I can feel jealous FOR them but never OF them! It tends to be worse with people I know well, friends, or other family members.
I can identify with your holiday anxiety too and I do really hope your anxiety doesn't spoil it. I was keen on booking ours initially but when DH started getting enthusiastic about visiting places and making detailed plans I began to panic again. Maybe we can support each other in the run-up!
I will try and bear in mind your suggestions and what helps you. xxx

Kiora - that was a great post. I also think I would be hung if people knew my thoughts sometimes! Good job folks can't mind read or I'd be in serious trouble. I have often been talking to someone, smiling and agreeing with them and thinking 'do you know what, I'd really like to slap your face'. I also know that I am a good kind person but I am also human. Time to give ourselves a break I think.

As ever it has taken far too long for me to spot an important thread. So sorry you are having problems again *Rowantree. it never ceases to amaze me that psychiatrists get cross or difficult when the course of treatment they recommend doesn't work for a particular person. Do they not realise that you want it to work far more than they do, so not only are you coping with feeling depressed, anxious and jealous but you are also bitterly, bitterly disappointed.

Oops, posted off my original message too soon.

I am also taking a low dose of Mirtazapine and do enjoy getting some sleep but am concerned if (even more) weight gain comes with it. So far no mid night munchies for me.

I do sincerely hope someone realises your need and offers you proper help. I agree with everything that sunseeker says, you are allowed to have your own views so don't let saying 'no' worry you too much. Without wishing to repeat this too often, but it is important, be kind to yourself. (((hugs)))

Thank you DebnCreme, KatyK and others. I can't believe that anyone else could have similar unpleasant thoughts too. I have a lot of issues with my MIL who can be extremely tactless at times. When, a few months back, DH asked her quietly not to keep bringing up my weight in conversations because it upset me, she commented that I was a 'complicated person' (!) Not that she was rude in mentioning my weight, of course. But I'm afraid that these days EVERYTHING she says irritates me to screaming point, though on the outside I'm smiling and as kind as I can be to her. I just want her to shut the f* up when she brags about things, goes on about how wonderful her daughters' children are (when she's with us) and telling us every minute detail of their houses or what they've been doing. She fusses about food - we search out places to take her to eat with the greatest care but every time she grumbles about something and it's only later that we hear from her youngest daughter that actually she had enjoyed her day out with us or the mini holiday we took her on (she never says so at the time).
As I said, I'm DREADING seeing her a week on Sunday because she will want to go on and on about her new great grandchild (as of course anyone would), not realising that for me it's a trigger and a big issue. I can't carry on avoiding it, I know, so I will have to find some way of coping in the future. But I don't feel up to it at the moment.

I sound more and more like a grumpy old woman - certainly a twitter and bisted one! But it's sooo good to come on here and share thoughts, experiences and feel less alone.

As to my psychiatrist - he's a nice man, very understanding and I have no problem with him. It's the Integrated Psychological Therapies service who have rejected his referral. And today I emailed him to ask about stepping up my antidepressant again - and was very surprised that he replied within the hour, agreeing to my request and will have a new prescription ready for me on Tuesday morning. That at any rate is a relief, but I won't be able to discuss the rejection from CIPTS till mid June when I see him for an appointment.

I now have the picture in my mind of several Gransnetters hanging in a line on a gibbet, for voicing some bitchy thought or other....swinging in the wind....I've certainly had enough nasty thoughts to earn me many. many hangings!

rowan have you ever tried complementary therapies such as reiki or reflexology, indian head massage etc. They cannot replace your medication but may help you to feel relaxed and better about yourself. You must ask your doc before trying them, but I hope you can where I live it costs between 20 and 30 quid a session but it varies from area to area.
Im a trained therapist and I do people for free so if you live in Northumberland no probs. But I assume you don't but do look around for prices and treat yourself you will be pleasantly surprised

I'll book my place in that line now, then, Rowan, for all the wicked thoughts I have about my MiL, stepmother and various 'friends'; for all the times envy and jealousy have gnawed away at my soul; for every time I've been sure everyone has a much better life than me ..... We're all too human. Sending you big (((hugs))) and hoping you'll try to be kinder to yourself. Xxx

Rowan I don't know if you take the Mail on Sunday but there is an interesting article in it today about a lady who was helped enormously with her anxiety and overwhelming negative thoughts and feelings by something called Compassion Focused Therapy. It seems that it tackles self-criticism and replaces it with kindness (to yourself). It may be worth Google-ing it if you haven't heard of it already. Apologies if someone else has mentioned this.

KAtyK, I don't take Mail on Sunday but many thanks for the heads-up - I will see if I can find the article online or google it. I have a book about compassion, but find it difficult to apply it to myself because - well, I don't feel I deserve it.

I am dreading visiting MIL next Sunday. I have to go because otherwise DH will have to explain why I'm not there, which will be extremely difficult as we always visit together. I know she will want to talk about her new great-grandchild and I am dreading her wanting to Skype her granddaughter, with our help, and see the baby. I just can't face it and really don't know how I will cope with the awful feelings of resentment, jealousy (of what? I wish I knew!), bitterness and wanting to hide and pretend it's not happening.
This granddaughter was born a few months before my own DD2 and whereas her birth was trouble-free, DD2s was far from it - as I've said on more than one occasion. Being born with a rare syndrome, she was a late developer and we were worried sick for the first two years of her life, fearing for her future, not knowing whether she was going to be mentally affected or not. But all that was about 30 years ago, and I should be over all that by now. Instead, I still feel deep resentment towards my sister in law (who never offered an ounce of sympathy or support when DD2 was a baby and never asks about either of our daughters now). I OUGHT to be the generous one and let the pain and hurt go, but I can't. I feel like a small spoilt child who doesn't want others to be happy because it takes something away from me (illogical in the extreme!) I can't claim that all my problems are because of DD2's birth and the problems arising from it; but it certainly didn't help, and I felt and still feel a strong, overwhelming sense of failure and inadequacy as a mother and as a human being.
It's probably far too late now to expect to ever feel differently or to have any relief from all of this, but I am still trying. I can't see my psychiatrist till mid June, after our holiday, to discuss what happens now that my referral for further therapy has been rejected. I guess that nothing will happen and that from now on, I am on my own. I'm simply not considered unwell enough to merit any further help

Rowantree as someone who has harboured murderous thoughts in the past I really do feel for you. These thoughts are horrible, if only there was an off switch.

My own MIL used to come to me every Boxing Day and spend the day telling me what a wonderful time she had had at her daughter's house the previous day, what a fabulous meal they had had, how beautiful her house was looking, what marvellous entertainment she had provided - to the point where I wasn't sure which one of them I hated most

That's just one example. I was also guilty of thinking that 'everyone else' was happier than I was and was having a better life.

I've had periods of depression throughout my life from an early age. CBT eventually helped me and I am now coping without treatment.

Please try to be kind to yourself, no one knows what goes on in other peoples' minds and as my grandmother used to say 'you can't be hung for your thoughts'.

I do hope you manage to appeal and get further help.

The thing is baubles is that you can only take so much of listening to how fantastic someone else's life is. I had a friend for almost 30 years. She bragged continuously about how wonderful her life was (compared to mine) how fantastic her house was (compared to mine) how well paid her husbands job was (compared to mine) how exotic her holidays were (compared to mine) etc........ To be honest whenever we met I always returned home feeling deflated, inadequate and in a black mood. My DH picked up on this and it became apparent that she absolutely thrived on my misfortune. She needed me to make her life better ! Although our friendship never ended "officially" and words were never spoken. I just became unavailable and the message sunk in. We now say hello and send each other Christmas cards but thats it and I do feel better for it.

rowan how does your MiL act towards others when you are not there? I ask because it always made me angry that no matter what I did for my mother she never said thank you - she actually said that it was no more than I ought to do! She would talk continually about how well my brother was doing, how wonderful his children were etc. etc. etc.

She then moved to Australia to live with my brother and when I went to visit and had a chance to talk with my brother he said that it did get a bit wearing that my mother was always telling him how successful my DH and I were, what a lovely house we had, how much we did for her etc. etc. etc!!

Do you think your MiL may be the same? All these years she may have been telling everyone how well you coped with the difficult births, how wonderful you were with your daughters etc.

Perhaps when things get a bit trying for you during the visit you could "zone out" (I used to do this with my mother and she would chatter on completely unaware that I wasn't listening!), or after making the usual ooh ahh noises offer to go and make a cup of tea (or something stronger if she has it!), and while you are out of the room try a few relaxation techniques, take some deep breaths, clear your mind and just concentrate on your breathing and count backwards from 300 until you feel calmer.

Again, try to be kind to yourself - as I said before if you were the terrible person you think you are then none of this would bother you

Perhaps your mother was just trying to keep you both on your toes sunseeker by playing both you and your brother off against each other. I know all about "zoning out" as have to do it regularly or my family would drive me completely nuts !

I think you are right gillybob - my mother is a world champion when it comes to manipulation! My brother deals with it a lot better than I do - but it is easier now she lives the other side of the world!

Does it make you feel a bit better Rowan knowing that others have had these intense feelings? It makes me feel slightly better after having spent a few hours with the object of my annoyance at the weekend. (I won't bore you with the details again). I don't know how I got through it without slapping her. . She is SO smug. She's got this look on her face which says 'don't you wish you were in with the in-crowd like me - look everyone loves me.' And she had the cheek to hug MY granddaughter. I felt like saying 'get your own granddaughter to hug'. I feel better now that's out! Sorry ladies.

Oh KatyK that did make me .

My (ex) friend was terribly smug and as I said a bit earlier she seemed to feed off my (many) downfalls! Grrrrrrrrr

Rowan you really mustn't think that you are the only person who feels the way you do. We all have terrible thoughts sometimes and anyone who says they don't are telling lies fibs ! Some of us keep these thoughts tucked away, some of us judge ourselves. You are not a bad or a terrible person at all. When I am feeling particulary miserable or down, and nothing seems to be going right, the last thing I want to hear is someone else's happy, joyful news. I think its human nature. Some people are more sentitive to other people's feelings.

Smug people are my least favourite type gilly and your words to rowan above are very true

Wow, Gillybob, I too had a friend rather like yours and we were friends for about 25 years. It hurts, doesn't it, but it sounds as if you made the right decision for you. How awful - my ex-friend was rather more subtle about her one-upmanship, but used to talk endlessly about her wonderful kids and grandkids as if nothing else mattered, and if I tried to talk about my worries about DD2, who went through hell as a child with her disability and mental health issues, she told me I worried too much and I should be like her - each day a new day, not allowing anything to bother her, etc. She constantly patronised me when we traded together (we had a small biz dyeing and selling threads and fabrics) and kept introducing herself to others rather smugly as the Bossy One of the partnership which infuriated me because it made me look as if I was weak and unimportant. She even brushed off as not very important when DD2 was sexually assaulted - and chose the time of the court case to email me (not tell me in person) that she didn't want to work with me any more. She then sent her OH round to me to heavy me over and demand that all loose ends were tied up by a certain date because it was convenient to her!

So I hope your ex-friend and mine get to meet and are very happy together!

Sunseeker- I don't really know, though my sister in law (the one I get on with!) has said she says she enjoys her days out with us (she never says so at the time) and we also take her away for a few days for a break every year, and she shows very little enthusiasm then either. We rely on Sis in law to give us any feedback. I don't recall her saying anything complimentary about me though. Zoning out sounds a good idea, if i can do it politely, but being a woman I'm MEANT to be interested in other people's babies, so she wouldn't like my lack of enthusiasm for her newest great-grandchild! I'm going to have to make a few appropriate noises, however much it grates, but I know there will be comparisons with ours - already the new baby is apparently feeding better and is more placid/sleeping better than my daughter's little one was, so I'm bracing myself!
Katyk, I had to smile at your post about the 'object of your annoyance' - it does help to know others feel similarly, though I still feel I react badly to things most people wouldn't do.

I just wondered if any of you along with the feeling discussed here have really silly fears when your feeling low. I become frightened of the post. Most of the time it's just a dislike of it. If thing get worse it can also make me feel nauseous. If I get really very low I have been known to hide it. How stupid is that.

Kiora, it's not stupid - it's something that holds fear for you, for some reason. Did you ever have reason to fear the post? Could it be a worry that it would contain some bad or unwelcome news and you fear you wouldn't be able to deal with it as you would wish?
It's easy to feel shame for what we fear and what distresses us, and to assume that others would be scornful and judge us for it. I know that applies to me.
I am fearful of my MIL talking about her new grandchild and of my OH's sister continually sending him photos and updates about it. It's making me quite agitated and upset and I feel ashamed at how it's getting to me. I could never admit this to MIL or to anyone else in the family apart from my OH and my daughters. Have you confided how you feel to anyone else, Kiora? Sharing one's fears might not make them disappear but it helps a little to feel less isolated. You might find a sense of relief having aired your anxiety on Gransnet. Most of the lovely people here are non-judgmental and very kind, which is just what you need when you are suffering fear and shame. Hugs to you.

Perhaps your "friend" like mine Rowantree needed you and all of your insecurities/worries/misfortune to make her feel better about herself. Good for her if she could see "each day as a new day......." Not all of us have that luxury do we? It would be interesting if they did meet. I wonder who would win the battle of "my dad's bigger than you dad... " then?

Absolutely Kiora with me it's the phone. I am so used to being given bad news (my mum, dad, grandma... etc) that I dread the home phone ringing. Sometimes (when I am feeling particularly down I can just stand and stare at it almost willing it to ring so I can have the power of not answering it) blimey now I sound like a fruit loop! But it's true.

Gillybob, I sometimes feel like that with the phone, but not always - it can catch me unawares. Goes back to phonecalls about DD2 - being phoned to be told she'd had an accident and injured her back and was in hospital in Wales (we're in South London)....or the many occasions she'd taken an overdose, had been admitted to a psychiatric ward as an emergency...even though that's years ago now, it still has the power to provoke fear, so I can well understand your reaction.

When the phone rings and it's a nuisance call, I've psyched myself up to answer, worrying that it's bad news (all in the space of split seconds!) and the offending caller then gets the rough end of my tongue and some choice expletives! Either that or I quietly place the receiver on the table and walk away for a while, just to waste their time.

Woke this morning feeling particularly low and obsessing about MIL, about the new baby and how I am going to deal with my feelings adequately. I got myself into a terrible state, didn't want to get up even and now have a thumping headache from crying I feel very ashamed because there is really nothing to cause such a reaction in me and I can only suppose it's part of my mental health problems and try not to think of myself as just a horrid person because of it. I don't have the hope of therapy any more as the NHS have closed the door on me, effectively, so now I feel consigned to the scrap heap as someone who is either beyond help or not worth it.
I am persevering with Mindfulness because I am hoping that will gradually bring about some kind of acceptance. It's a skill that should be taught at school really - if I'd been taught as a youngster, I'm sure I wouldn't be feeling as bad as I do now.
Gillybob, you could probably use mindfulness skills to help with your phone anxiety and KIora with the post fear too. Facing and acceptance are probably two of the hardest things to achieve. I didn't know about it when I was friends with my 'ex friend', but I guess it's pointless wondering what might have been - we all have to start from where we are (I keep having to remind myself of that!) Hugs to both of you.

I am going to be simplistic here, and apologise in advance, generally people who are at their most depressed in the morning and probably feel better as the day goes on really benefit from the use of an antidepressant as the depression comes from inside. People who feel worse as the day goes on are, by and large, reacting to some life event and benefit most from talking therapies. Rowentree go and see your GP and make a fuss if you can and get an antidepressant even if it's the old one to tide you over until you see the psychiatrist.
I apologise if others have already said this but it's worth repeating.

I haven't really explored any kind of therapy rowantree I'm sorry your feeling so low. It sounds to me as if your M.I.L plays mind games. Playing One relative off against the other. My M.I.L does this. It gets her lots of attention especially from people like us who want approval or to be accepted or even thought of as nice. The more critical she is the more we try to please her. It's clever, it's manipulative. I'm wise to her now so not as vulnerable. A few months ago the family had arranged a get together in a local pub for lunch. The logistics were a bit complicated and the plans went astray nothing serious it just delayed us for about 10 minutes. Well she did her usual and started to criticise. I think after 38 years I became exsberated . I told her if no one else was bothered why should she be. Her resort was along the lines of ' well I am" I told her if she felt like that she could (using a terrible swear word) go home. I wish you could have seen her face. I was shocked at myself but not as shocked as when two hours later in the garden I got a full apology. All my married life I have run after her. often at the expense of neglecting my own family. My husband has been asking myself and his sister why her approval is so important to us. It's only now I realise it's not. But better still I think she now realises it too. I'm free. (((((( hugs))))) I hope your visit isn't as bad as you anticipate and you feel a little better soon.