Is Gender Critical the new Pro Life?

Peasblossom

VioletSky

I would try to reassure her that trans people in crisis themselves arent a danger to her and if that didn't work (whatever the reason because I understand peoples feelings are real and genuine) I'd find her the closest alternative.

Sorry I didn't realise you couldn't come to a common sense answer yourself

Was thinking about this.

The problem is violetsky you wouldn’t have the opportunity toto reassure her or to find her another place to go because, knowing that she will have to be in a place where males have access to her and where her fears are not allowed she simply won’t come to that Rape Crisis Centre.

It seems harsh that, in distress and trauma she must go searching for a place where her feelings and fears are understood.

Does anybody else think my post is ‘violent and abusive”?

Do you mean the same way in which you didnt answer my post about how you ascertain that the government is full of men.
A discussion on a clash of rights is not aggressive.
Calling people homophobic, and describing them as having limited life experience, and insignificant isnt aggressive either but it's not great.

It is harsh Peasblossom

Why are people scapegoating trans people all over the internet when the logical outcome of that is making some other women afraid when they don't need to be

What do you mean by scapegoating. I am saying you cant change sex, and certain provisions need to retain their single sex status.

I honestly can’t see what’s violent and abusive about saying that women who have been raped won’t want to go to a Rape Centre where they will be with males, trans or otherwise.

Many of them find it difficult to be at close quarters with any male, even a beloved partner. Or a trusted father.

That’s just a fact and a result of trauma. We know from PTSD research that even tenuous connections can trigger uncontrollable feelings of fear. And yet women must put all their feelings to one side or be refused the help they desperately need.

trisher

Ah I see if you can't say anything to contradict a post change the subject

I haven't been involved in the recent robust exchange of views.
I simply posted something that I thought relevant to the thread.

Could a trans women not put her feelings about her rights to one side to ensure her sisters receive help and support after the trauma of Rape.

Peasblossom

Could a trans women not put her feelings about her rights to one side to ensure her sisters receive help and support after the trauma of Rape.

?

If a trans woman is needing those same services it is because she has been raped surely.

Stonewall said "Do not use the word 'mother'"
The Scottish Government, and others, rushed to comply.
Now Stonewall says "The word 'mother' is important. Keep using it."

Stonewall has dropped guidance advising groups on its workplace schemes to remove the word “mother” from their policies.

The lobby group said that it would no longer reward higher ranking scores to employers who replaced “mother” with gender-neutral alternatives.

Nancy Kelley, the Stonewall chief executive, denied in an interview that such a policy existed. “We’re not interested in removing or erasing the word ‘mother’,” she said. Kelley, who has two adopted children with her wife, added: “I’m a mum. I’m married to another mum. It’s a deeply emotive term. I would be really upset if my children didn’t call me Mum.”

When presented with its recent advice to Dundee University, which contradicted Kelley’s claims, Stonewall said it would change its guidance.

A Stonewall representative said last night that the word “mother” was precious to LGBTQ+ people.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stonewall-agrees-that-mother-knows-best-7jhmfljtf?shareToken=1e473452b4413900baa02f47dbffa003&fbclid=IwAR0XsmhW6kIHTwIjhuM2Rty_9CuPXiQ6ISmDBkLtGzMUD0n601NvZ70azXA

VioletSky How about staff of a domestic violence refuge?
Is it okay for some of them to be trans (male)?
Could male people, knowing that women expect that single-sex means female-only, not be expected to stay away from such employment?

In case you think of saying "risk assessment", an actual threat of harm is not the point.
The point is an expectation that the environment will not include male people.

I have actually lived in a refuge and already explained how any issues could easily be avoided with the right premises

trisher could you clarify something for me here?
Where on here have you read that “it’s all the fault of transpeople and transwomen in particular?”
Where have you read that transwomen don’t need safe spaces?
I have posted that TW who appear and act like men and announce that they are TW, should not be allowed in AHF safe spaces and I adhere to that view. I have never said that all TW do that.
I agree there’s a problem with funding. I’ll even agree that provision should be made for TW who choose to appear and behave like men, just not in safe spaces designated for women.
Can you clarify your points made in your last paragraph and source the reference to the . . . government?
There can’t be a ‘real feminist rebellion about refuge funding’ when there is no agreement about what feminism means and where one side states that TWAW and claims that, on that inaccurate statement that all TW should be allowed in safe places created for AHF.

Do you have anything else to say in response to the post

When presented with its recent advice to Dundee University, which contradicted Kelley’s claims, Stonewall said it would change its guidance.

Let the sunlight in and the growing swell of opposition to this oppressive group can bring change. Thanks for the link FarNorth

VioletSky

I have actually lived in a refuge and already explained how any issues could easily be avoided with the right premises

Do all refuges have the right premises?

What if staff pressures mean that the only staff member available is a transwoman?

Why is it unreasonable simply to say that all staff are to be biological females?
That is in fact what refuges claim in their job ads, citing the Equality Act exemptions, but then may contradict that by saying that transwomen are welcome to apply.

Farnorth i have no idea who has and hasn't applied for jobs in refuges, have you?

“I have already lived in a refuge”
I’ve commented on this sort of statement before. Just because you have experienced something it doesn’t mean you know how others feel.
In this particular instance, if a desperate woman needs a place of refuge where she will not be expected to meet or interact with men then that’s what she’s entitled to.

I haven’t been in a refuge, but have been involved in supporting women in a different situation. A TW who was quite obviously male and quite willing to demonstrate how male he was, was placed on a ward with women with mental health issues some of which were exacerbated by males.

The women who complained, some of whom were desperately upset, were basically told their only option was for them (the women) to go into the isolation rooms. The TW could not be moved there or the staff would be accused of transphobia.
Not all TW are like that, but women (AHF) who seek refuge with no chance of male contact should be allowed that.

The rest of the statement mattered

Galaxy

Do you mean the same way in which you didnt answer my post about how you ascertain that the government is full of men.
A discussion on a clash of rights is not aggressive.
Calling people homophobic, and describing them as having limited life experience, and insignificant isnt aggressive either but it's not great.

23% of this government are female, 36% of the H of Commons are female.
This country has a huge problem with male domination (nothing to do with transpeople). The government is full of men.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01250/`

None of these discussions would be happening if there were enough places in refuges for all abused people. Cut funding, create conflict, continue to rule.

But Trisher you aren’t fighting for refuges for all people. So far, your posts seem to be for AHF, (women’s) refuges to admit transwomen. Once you set people’s back up with that claim, that’s what people remember about you.

trisher

None of these discussions would be happening if there were enough places in refuges for all abused people. Cut funding, create conflict, continue to rule.

I agree with this absolutely. Well, maybe not the 'none of this would be happening' bit, as it seems to me that the agenda of TRAs runs a lot deeper than funding issues; but if not for Austerity and a refusal to fund anything that can be outsourced to the private sector is part of the problem, for sure.

But if transpeople refuse to define themselves as such, would they be prepared to use separate facilities even if they existed? So long as the TWAW! No Debate! ideology persists, it wouldn't matter how much money was thrown at the issue, women still wouldn't have access to safe spaces away from male bodied people, would they?

trisher

Galaxy

Do you mean the same way in which you didnt answer my post about how you ascertain that the government is full of men.
A discussion on a clash of rights is not aggressive.
Calling people homophobic, and describing them as having limited life experience, and insignificant isnt aggressive either but it's not great.

23% of this government are female, 36% of the H of Commons are female.
This country has a huge problem with male domination (nothing to do with transpeople). The government is full of men.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01250/`

How do you know this to be true, trisher. As you point out on a regular basis, you can't tell people's sex without asking to see their genitals, and I'm guessing that you haven't carried out an intimate search in the HoC? The Speaker would have had something to say, I'm sure, and the papers would have been full of it.

All we need to do is ask 14% of the HOC trisher identifies as male to now identify as women and bingo equality at a stroke! They don't even need to change their clothing style. I'm sure trisher has stated her acceptance that males who identify as females should count as women.

Rosie51

All we need to do is ask 14% of the HOC trisher identifies as male to now identify as women and bingo equality at a stroke! They don't even need to change their clothing style. I'm sure trisher has stated her acceptance that males who identify as females should count as women.

I can just see it now. 'Yes, move along now, nothing to see here. We have a gender balance, and there is no disparity in pay between the sexes, no sorry - the genders. We don't recognise sex now, in case we lose our Diversity Champion status.

What's that? Women are feeling erased? Transphobia! Nazis!'