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Legal, pensions and money

Father's widow lying about the existence of a will

(65 Posts)
chattykathy Tue 28-Aug-18 19:51:56

Firstly, this is based in the Republic of Ireland but I hope someone can give me advice. My father died last year and several years ago he told me he and his 2nd wife had made mirror wills; spouse inherits and then anything left on the death of that person is shared between the adult children. Today I have requested a copy of the will only to be told by the Probate Office that his widow has declared he died intestate and deeds of administration have been issued to her. We definitely know there was a will as my aunt signed as a witness. Does this constitute fraud? It means if she were to die today her 2 adult children would inherit the lot. I know the final outcome will be the same anyhow as there was never anything to stop her leaving it all to them anyway but what she has done it still wrong and disrespectful to my DF. The main questions I have is how can this be allowed to happen? What's to stop a next of kin saying there's no will when there is one? Any advice will be welcome.

FarNorth Wed 29-Aug-18 16:48:25

My solicitor gave me a copy of my will. So it will be found, among my papers, even if the solicitor has lost their copy.
Don't all solicitors do that?

amt101 Wed 29-Aug-18 19:48:02

I think there are many fraud cases to do with wills. I know someone who produced a very old will made by her father and destroyed the later will. This meant she inherited his house completely. I know there was a huge argument but nothing was done.

Melanieeastanglia Wed 29-Aug-18 20:31:59

I am not any kind of expert so please disregard what I am going to write in next sentence if I am wrong.

If the Solicitors have a copy of the Will (and they are not likely to have destroyed it), surely the contents of it will have to be obeyed.

Perhaps I am naive or have completely missed something.

I wish you the very best of luck.

chattykathy Wed 29-Aug-18 20:38:01

Melanie the solicitor has said the will has been revoked as they got married after the will was made. Thank you for your comment

Muffin1986 Wed 29-Aug-18 23:37:28

If executors from siblings are instructed but will not agree on selling the house and releasing estate to be shared two years after death what can you do

Apricity Thu 30-Aug-18 00:04:15

Coincidently there was an article in our newspapers today noting that nearly half of Australians die without a valid will according to the government body the Australian Investments and Securities Commission (ASIC). Clearly a large number of Aussies are also avoiding this issue.

rosyposy50 Thu 30-Aug-18 00:49:12

Excuse my ignorance but what does AC stand for. Someone said they were leaving some of their assets to AC

Apricity Thu 30-Aug-18 05:46:52

AC=Adult Child. You can find a link to Acronyms at the bottom of the page. They are confusing, some people use them others don't. A bit of an alphabet soup. Welcome to Gransnet.

Diana54 Thu 30-Aug-18 07:32:31

I'm glad the will issue has been clarified, all you have to do is get your share, the value of the estate should be declared at probate, just take her to court to get your share. Because a lot of the value is likely tied up in the house, it may have to be sold which she will not like one bit.

Mirror Wills
Are entirely appropriate for young couples, you have no idea what the financial position will be in 20 40 or 60 yrs time. On the first death the surviving spouse gets the lot TAX FREE. They can decide what to do according to circumstances, if possible some should be distributed to any children by varying the will.

In my case, my husbands business was wound up and most of his half was shared by our daughters. My own share was the house, which I downsized, a life insurance payout and pension income, my costs are modest so when I go the house will go to the kids.

I do have a relationship with a man but I have no intention of marriage or even living with him because that would really upset the rest of the family and make them insecure.
Other women would want the security of marriage, her husbands first family will be very cautious if not hostile, however good her intentions, that hostility will make her dislike them.
ALL the second wives that I know have a poor relationship with his family even if they know that provision has been made in his will they still don't trust it.

Chocolatenoodle8 Fri 31-Aug-18 08:19:00

Some people register their Wills so they can be found.
We keep our Wills updated and have LPAs in place.
We’ve not registered our Wills, but many people do, so maybe worth a try?

Chocolatenoodle8 Fri 31-Aug-18 08:22:41

Our Solicitor gave us copies of our Wills and LPAs but the originals are held by them. Our family know which legal firm we use. Solicitors retain original signed Wills - maybe so they Execute the Wills. We are content for our Solicitor to act as our Executor

Ramblingrose22 Fri 31-Aug-18 09:53:34

A thorny subject even if there hasn't been a second marriage!
I can see why it is easier if someone dies intestate.

Unfortunately some people refuse to face up to the fact that they might die one day so they won't make a will.
Others are control freaks or very secretive or like to play others along about what they will leave them.

I thought wills become a public document after probate so anyone can read one? Years ago, my FIL managed to obtain a copy of my late father's will he couldn't believe nothing was left to my siblings and I) and my mother would never have provided us with a copy.

Some people are foolish enough to make their solicitor their executor, but executors have also been known to help themselves to the deceased's bank accounts because they can rely on the beneficiaries not knowing about all the bank accounts. One even sold the deceased's house to himself at a very low price until the beneficiaries queried it!

The law in other European countries requires people to leave their property/assets to their children. Perhaps that should happen here unless the person making the will leaves it to a charity and says why, in the will they do not wish to leave their money to their own children.

Tweedle24 Fri 31-Aug-18 11:39:48

My husband and I made identical wills (not mirror wills). We were advised to put the house in trust to reduce death duties. Unfortunately, the solicitor went bankrupt and the will was taken over by another company. We were never informed that the tax laws had changed and the trust was no longer necessary. We should have kept up-to-date ourselves, I know.

The letter of wishes stated that everything was to come to me and on my death to be split between our two daughters.. I made a new will immediately, leaving everything to be split between my daughter and his. My step-daughter refused to sign off the trust until she had received a third of the inheritance. It meant that I had to take out equity on the house to pay her off.

There is no letter of wishes with my will now. These are not legally enforceable like the will. I made yet another will leaving everything to my own daughter. My step-daughter had to sign an agreement that she would have no interest in what I leave.

It was all nasty and hurtful at a time when I should have been grieving and took over 18 months and a lot of solicitors' bills to sort out. We had been together for 35 years.

By the way, witnesses do not witness the will, only the signature.

annsixty Fri 31-Aug-18 12:05:46

I recently obtained a copy of my SiL's will.
She and her H , my H's brother had no children.
She had told me when we were on holiday together that the nephews and nieces were all included.
After she died when nothing had been heard I requested a copy.
She left large sums to 4 friends and the child of one couple and all the rest to her niece and 2 nephews and just one of her H's nephews, not even a token amount to his brother.
This seemed so unfair to me as her H had contributed the bulk of the estate.
Such is life, have no expectations and you won't disappointed