Trans Nurses

Chewbacca

As Baroness Nicol said in the HoL "you cannot rape if you do not have the structure of a male". This rapist was a male. Not a female.

Really? So a person being forceably penetrated (vaginally, anally, orally) by anything other than a penis is not being raped?

Baroness Nicol is wrong.

Looking forward to if/when this case goes to court trial, I wonder if the victim will be forced to address her attacker as "she/her" and risk contempt of court if she fails to do so?

The patient was raped. End of.
Unbelievable that the authority in question stated it couldn't have happened at all while they were under their care.
The patient should have been safeguarded and treated like any other victim that had turned up either at a police station or A&E, samples taken and anyone that was present at the time tested.
Disgusting that the patient has had to wait so long to be heard. Shame that they didn't name the hospital trust in question that has such an antiquated and uncaring attitude to those under its care. Not one any of us would feel comfortable at being treated .

Gagajo Baroness Nicol is correct, I am sure that according to U.K. law rape is penetration by a penis anything else is assault

Surely the issue is that a man was allowed to access a place where a woman should feel safe, and it was covered up by the people who allowed it?
Absolutely no chance whatsoever of a conviction if the victim is gaslighted about the fact that a man raped her.

No Gagajo you are wrong.

The legal definition of rape is when a person intentionally penetrates another's vagina, anus or mouth with a penis, without the other person's consent. Assault by penetration is when a person penetrates another person's vagina or anus with any part of the body other than a penis, or by using an object, without the person's consent.

Source: Metropolitan police.

Hope that helps.

GrannyGravy13

Gagajo Baroness Nicol is correct, I am sure that according to U.K. law rape is penetration by a penis anything else is assault

She is legally correct. Otherwise, she is wrong. Call it what you like. If you have something shoved into you, against your will, that is a rape.

"The issue here isn't trans. The issue is that rape is not really seen as a crime by the establishment."

10 points for Gryffindor

So she's right, in other words.

Once, apartheid was legal. It wasn't right, but it was legal. Jim Crow laws were legal. They were wrong, but they were legal.

Why would any woman think the current laws around rape are OK? 1.6% charge rate. So 98.4% of reported rapes go uncharged.

You're OK with that, are you?

It's not surprising that rape isn't treated as it should be when people are finding all these loopholes, regardless of whether they fit the legal definition of the act.

Maybe it should be asked for an edit to the title so that this doesn't seem to be about trans nurses in general

So how does denying that there was even a male present to commit the rape further the cause of it being given proper consideration and punishment?

Stop the world, I want to get off.

I can't believe the apologists on here, hair splitting about whether the woman was raped or not, whether the perpetrator was a woman, or not. The facts are; a woman, in what should have been a place of safety was raped. By an intact male. Said woman was then told this could not be so as technically there were no men on the ward. There was, however, a penis on the ward, and it was used to rape a woman. If anyone, trans or intact or whatever raped my DD while she slept in her hospital bed they wouldn't need to have gender re-assignment surgery because I would rip it off them. Tin hat on, awaiting accusations of transphobia.

GagaJo

Chewbacca

As Baroness Nicol said in the HoL "you cannot rape if you do not have the structure of a male". This rapist was a male. Not a female.

Really? So a person being forceably penetrated (vaginally, anally, orally) by anything other than a penis is not being raped?

Baroness Nicol is wrong.

She isn't, GagaJo,

This from Rape Crisis England and Wales

In England and Wales, the legal definition of rape is when someone intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person with their penis, without the other person's consent.

rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/types-of-sexual-violence/what-is-rape/

Scotland:

The Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2009 states that rape occurs when a person intentionally or recklessly penetrates another person's vagina, anus or mouth with their penis, where the victim does not consent and the person responsible has no reasonable belief that the victim is giving consent.

NI appears to be the same:

www.amh.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/northern-ireland-sex-and-the-law.pdf

This woman was raped by a man and it was covered up by the establishment of a NHS Trust

Still female posters are are arguing over what constitutes rape…

Oops, thread's moved on a bit.

Hang on. NO ONE on here is saying she wasn't raped.

What I am saying is that what constitutes rape needs to be widened.

Because currently rape laws fail just about everyone.

Let's all try and get the crime of rape taken more seriously by saying "oh no, dear, you can't have been raped, there wasn't a man there".
That's a huge step in the right direction, eh?

It doesn't need to be widened.
It needs to be adhered to, as almost everyone seems to know exactly what rape is.

MissAdventure

It doesn't need to be widened.
It needs to be adhered to, as almost everyone seems to know exactly what rape is.

And yet almost no rapes result in charges or convictions.

Hmmmm

GagaJo

Galaxy

Its just impossoble for some people to acknowledge male violence. Its perfectly understable but not helpful. A man raped a woman. Thats what happened. No need for change in terminology and no need to further abuse a victim by forcing her to pretend that she was raped by a woman.

Of course male violence is an issue. It is a tenet of feminism to resist it.

But society can't force every trans person to bear the brunt of one person who used the cover of women's clothes, in order to commit a rape, to label all trans people or prevent their integration into a civilized society.

No one is suggesting women should suddenly come under attack for sexual violence. Just that the terminology needs to change.

Let's face it. Of all of the rape accusations against 100% cis / heterosexual men, only 1.6% result in a charge.

The issue here isn't trans. The issue is that rape is not really seen as a crime by the establishment.

Absolutely...in my opinion, if a concern with trans women is that men might claim to self-ID as trans to gain access to women’s spaces and assault them, then surely the real problem is actually with predatory men and not trans women.

MissA this has infuriated me.

That is a,whole separate issue, which isn't helped in the least by peoples what aboutery.

Ultimately, the very first thing that needs to be done is an overhaul of the legal system that practically never results in conviction of rapists