Trans Nurses

GagaJo

Hang on. NO ONE on here is saying she wasn't raped.

What I am saying is that what constitutes rape needs to be widened.

Because currently rape laws fail just about everyone.

That doesn't justify saying that Baroness Nicol is wrong

Rape with a penis is a specific crime. It is used as a weapon of war against women on the opposing side because it can cause pregnancy. No other crime can cause pregnancy, no other crime is the same as rape.
I am not saying one is not as bad as the other, but rape is different.

Should this poor woman decide that she needs the support of a rape crisis centre, she'd better be prepared to be told that she cannot request to be attended to, examined by or supported by a female. That would be transphobia. Apparently.

For the victim here, the first thing to have been done would have been to agree that she was raped.
By a man.
With a penis.

MaizieD

GagaJo

Hang on. NO ONE on here is saying she wasn't raped.

What I am saying is that what constitutes rape needs to be widened.

Because currently rape laws fail just about everyone.

That doesn't justify saying that Baroness Nicol is wrong

OK, tautology. The legal definition is wrong. Laws can be wrong. Examples as in my above post.

Ilovecheese

Rape with a penis is a specific crime. It is used as a weapon of war against women on the opposing side because it can cause pregnancy. No other crime can cause pregnancy, no other crime is the same as rape.
I am not saying one is not as bad as the other, but rape is different.

This is the first comment in here on this topic that is actually logical.

GagaJo

Ultimately, the very first thing that needs to be done is an overhaul of the legal system that practically never results in conviction of rapists

No what has to be done is to secure wonen only places.

Stop men with intact genitalia getting access to these spaces.

But what constitutes rape does not have to be widened because no other crime is the same as rape. The other crimes need to be prosecuted and punished just as badly, but they are not the same.

the first thing to have been done would have been to agree that she was raped.

Agreed MissA. Instead of gaslighting her for a year that she was mistaken, deluded and a liar.

Sorry what does the prosecution rate have to do with anything. The prosecution rate is abysmal. Pretending this woman wasnt raped by a man wont help.

Rape is a crime of control over women, men use their penis as a weapon.

Galaxy

Sorry what does the prosecution rate have to do with anything. The prosecution rate is abysmal. Pretending this woman wasnt raped by a man wont help.

Exactly. I fail to see how telling a rape victim that she is mistaken is helping rape conviction rates which are already shockingly low. The 1.6% success rate will not be helped by a defence barrister arguing that the accused cannot have committed rape because they are a 'woman'.

No, we do not punish the victims

If anything, sexual offenses are taken seriously, punished appropriately so offenders feel the society's lack of acceptance for the crimes

If we need to restrict anybody, it is men
Let women roam anywhere free

We are, in effect, just opening up more ways for offenders to access women.
We've moved on from questioning what women were wearing, why they were in a particular place, or if they were inebriated,and introduced something much more sinister.

GrannyGravy13

GagaJo

Ultimately, the very first thing that needs to be done is an overhaul of the legal system that practically never results in conviction of rapists

No what has to be done is to secure wonen only places.

Stop men with intact genitalia getting access to these spaces.

Well, society isn't going in that direction, is it?

So either the same old argument is gone over and over or something that is actually useful is done.

Because this thread is turning into just another trans-phobic thread, with the same old arguments churned out again.

Because the arguments are valid.
Women should also be able to say which way society goes, not just men.
Men's feelings are not more important than women's feelings.
That is not transphobia. Accusations of trans phobia are just another way of saying that the feelings of women should not be taken into account. That women should just be quiet.

This issue includes trans because that is how the poor victim was gaslit.
Trans people are transpeople.
A trans woman is not a woman.

I have no objections to trans people but I do object to lies and cover ups.
Why not just stick to facts and the truth?

The title of the thread should be changed.
The law should be changed.
The definition of rape should be changed....
Everything should revolve around accommodating male offenders.
Not transwomen, note, male offenders.

GagaJo

GrannyGravy13

GagaJo

Ultimately, the very first thing that needs to be done is an overhaul of the legal system that practically never results in conviction of rapists

No what has to be done is to secure wonen only places.

Stop men with intact genitalia getting access to these spaces.

Well, society isn't going in that direction, is it?

So either the same old argument is gone over and over or something that is actually useful is done.

Because this thread is turning into just another trans-phobic thread, with the same old arguments churned out again.

Gagajo I really don’t understand why you always say in many discussion of these issues that everyone is transphobic, I’m not, I am violence phobic and bigoted phobic

I wonder if the poor female victim also had to fear having an STD or pregnancy to deal with.
Obvs we don't know enough details to even guess at the consequences but to tell the vulnerable person that they imagined a rape is beyond horrific.

If a man has his genitals intact he is a man however many dresses high heels or lipstick he uses and cannot call himself anything other than a MALE
However hospitals employ male and female nurses so it wouldn’t necessarily have stopped rape happening however it would make a difference to any sentencing and the patient being believed

A Google search gives this dictionary definition of Rape as
“unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim” .

I am fed up to the back teeth of having transphobia thrown in women’s faces whenever they ask for women only places for their safety

It is normally a sign of no valid points to be made

GrannyGravy13

I am fed up to the back teeth of having transphobia thrown in women’s faces whenever they ask for women only places for their safety

It is normally a sign of no valid points to be made

Quite agree

I’m wondering wether the hospital or the staff on the ward actually knew that the nurse was “trans”.
On any ward there is often only one qualified nurse on duty helped by a number of Clinical Support staff sometimes with only limited training. It would be easy for a creep to present as a woman, but trans rights obviously comes before patients rights.

Chewbacca

What that poor woman went through is disgraceful. Bad enough that she was raped and violate in the supposed safety of a hospital ward, but she was disbelieved and accused of being a liar, was brought to the edge of a breakdown and was gaslighted that she must have imagined it all. It took the NHS Trust a whole year to admit that it was true, despite the fact that they had checked their cctv and had the evidence right there.

But this couldn't happen could it? A male, with a penis, dressed, presenting, and accepted as a woman, couldn't/wouldn't harm a vulnerable woman would he? So let's allow them in more of our safe spaces. It'll be fine.

Yes, absolutely!