Everything to do with the attacks

"Market nods"???????
WTF is my iPad on????
MINDS

Sorry Alea- could you explain why this is tosh- the dehumanising of the enemy in all modern wars (eg not face to face).

Our wonderful neighbour, long gone now- was in bomber command when they bombed Dresden. I saw some of the letters he wrote home- and this (very necessary and unavoidable) dehumanisation of the innocent enemy was tragically evident.

Like ' we really let Gerry have it - the whole place was like a giant fireworks- but it was all worth it for double rations of eggs and bacon'- It stayed with him forever, and caused him to have bouts of depression, sleepless nights and at times even violent behaviour. We all loved him, and his family never quite understood- but were truly shocked when the letters were found.

No, the reference to brainwashing!! Too ridiculous.

Of course these brave men tried to make light of things for their families. I am not reading "the whole place was like a giant firework
-but it was all worth it for double rations of eggs and bacon" as some sinister dehumanisation. More this young man was serving his country and trying to reassure his loved ones back home.

Yes, I agree, it was a survival mechanism common to all troops in those wars. I don't understand this 'look what we did in the past' attitude.

I'm with Alea on this one. Nazi Germany was set on world domination, invading countries, carrying out mass murder of the citizens of those countries. It set about its mission to wipe out the Jews, Roma,mpeople with disability, learning difficulties, homosexuals, the list is endless. Alongside this, British cities were relentlessly bombed.
My parents and pil weren't 'brainwashed' into joining the military. The felt there was no option or be invaded. Our island status was a bonus in that war.

Of course the men who carried out bombing raids had to do so positively and equally obviously they suffered psychologically afterwards.

there was no 'blame' at all in my post- I loved the guy and so respected him. What I am saying is that in all wars, the dehumanising is part of the strategy- and that, yes- it is encouraged by seniors and built in- and as such I stick to the 'brain washing' notion- as it was drummed in. So I imagine both came into play, re-assuring loved ones back home- but also trying very hard not to think of the children and the families they knew they were hitting. Same with Hiroshima too- they had to be trained into switching the human side off- and also use humour. Features which are also witnessed in some professions- like medicine, where very dark humour is at times the only way to survive.

Ever read 'the Book Thief' ? A wonderful book and film too.

What exactly is your point, granjura? That ISIS fighters have been 'brainwashed' just as past members of armed forces have been? So...?

It was in response to an earlier question and the reply given by anniebach about dehumanising the victim- or the enemy- in order to be able to kill with indiscrimnate bombs that will kill innocent civilians.

Talking about what happened in past wars is relevant- if we never learn from the past, there is little hope.

What I've learned from the past is that an evil murdering faction will strike the weak as well as the strong. Better to be strong and do everything possible to stop them.

I've just read on the internet that the French have dropped 20 bombs on Isis held territory this evening. I thought I was totally anti-war but I'm thinking 'Good on 'em' so I can't be anymore'. Rather sad.

If it's true there will be a revenge attack and on it will go

A bit of changing the subject here!!
Not arguing with the dehumanising element of warfare, look at the famous football match in WWI, but let's leave reviewing "The Book Thief" out of it, and agree that the quote about "brainwashing" was, is and remains "tosh"!!
The word was ill -chosen, the notion that our armed forces were brainwashed, downright insulting. I don't care how fond of your neighbour you were, you have misjudged the British mentality, especially when up against the evil which was Nazi Germany.

Well said, Alea.

Yes. Well said, Alea

Jingle, in war people are not picked off one by one , bombing a country kills innocent people

If nothing is done, innocent people, many more in my opinion, will be killed.

In life sometimes, there is a choice between a bad outcome, and an even worse one.
[a bit like austerity, there is either tightening our belts, or becoming Greece-like, ie a bad outcome, and an even worse one]

Sometimes there is no easy choice to make.

Anniebach. Do you think God was wrong to be on the side of certain groups in the Bible, when war came?

Do you think God should not have done the things he did?

You seem to think there should never be war. So how do you account for what God did?

ISIS has been described by experts as having very sophisticated weaponry, equipment and military training. Surely, the key question is where is this being obtained from? The International Business Times reported:

"According to Brown Moses, a U.K.-based blog that has emerged during the Syrian civil war as the foremost authority on the weapons used in that conflict, ISIS has now obtained rocket launchers, grenade launchers and American-made M60 machine guns from Croatia through Saudi Arabia. After being sold to the Saudis, the weapons were, according to blog founder Eliot Higgins, flown to Turkey and then smuggled into Syria overland before being sold or given to ISIS.

"Higgins’ reconstruction of the flow of weapons into Syria is supported by a New York Times report from 2013 that examined air traffic data showing more than 160 flights by Jordanian, Saudi and Qatari cargo planes landing at Turkish airports. Those flights were loaded with arms destined for Syrian rebels, according to officials cited in the report. The report also showed data proving that Saudi military flights were going in and out of Croatia around the same time."

Additionally, James Carafino, a US expert on foreign and defence policies, stated:

“They’ve apparently taken enough U.S. weapons from the Iraqi military in Mosul to put them in good shape for a long time, but the question is, how do they use those weapons, how do they maintain them, where do they get spare parts from?”

You may remember that the US insisted the Iraqi army and police force be dismantled because there was a good chance they were loyal to Saddam Hussein and could not be trusted. It then appears that the mammoth task of training, in effect, a whole army of new recruits was not a great success, as the Iraqi soldiers proved no match for ISIS and it was reported that they ran away, leaving behind their weapons.

As I understand it, ISIS operates outside international law and no country recognises it as being legitimate. That being the case, why are the country(ies) or individuals that are supplying this weaponry not officially identified and international law brought to bear to apply economic/diplomatic/political/military pressure or arrest the culprit(s)?

I know of no documented occasion where a GOD has declared war or taken sides. Prime Ministers, Tribal Leaders, Kings, Queens and Presidents declare war and THEY always state that GOD [and Right] is on their side. This happens even when they and their enemies worship the same GOD. eg Various Moslem Factions, Catholics/Protestants.

The idea that an airstrike killed only Jihad John and no one else is farcical. Further there has been no evidence to show that he was indeed killed, just as there was no evidence of the death of Bin Laden. We were told that his body had been immediately dumped at sea but were not supplied with any proof. Why not? We are deliberately kept in the dark about many things, only told what the powers that be want us to believe. Remember Saddam's alleged WMD? No wonder we struggle to make sense of what is happening.

If praying would do any good I'd be on my knees, if weeping would help I'd fill the oceans. Instead I make Jam not War. It will be sold for a good cause - it was all I could think of to usefully do today in the face of such warmongering, greedy, evil people.

Anniebach, your comment that if it's true the French have bombed Isis held territory 'there will be a revenge attack' is sadly beyond naive. This murderous group want the world to be a caliphate. The attacks they perpetrated in France weren't against any kind of military/political type organisation, they were against ordinary people who were enjoying themselves. The attack was against what the terrorists call prostitutes, pagans etc. As with the Nazi's, there is no negotiation possible at this stage. My own view is that europe, the US and Russia need to form an alliance of some sort. There are no easy solutions here.

Soontobe - how can you make such ridiculous remarks in the face of Isil, who believe they are acting under instruction and guidance from their god?

Perhaps the ancient Greeks had it right and there are several Gods up there using us as pawns in their war games. Either way, whoever's God is right, there has to be a way of stopping this mess. It's like a movie with a few bad guys dictating the lives of the world and there must be a way to stop them.

One problem I believe in the Middle East is how much money talks above all else. Backsheesh and bribes can optain anything so security goes out of the window. I had read that IS is running out of money as Syria breaks down, especially now Russia has decided to join in and they're getting more desperate - more atrocities within Syria - torture, confiscation of goods and money, women in cages being used to protect their bases - so they no longer have any tacit support of the populations they overrun. They are now ruling only by fear - which takes men and resources. Let's hope this is true and that Paris was their last big gesture and not the start of a long campaign.

It is ridiculous that so many innocents are losing their life throughout the world including those directly affected in Syria and trying to find peace elsewhere, and we have yet to show a real united front. Chaos and fear are one of the tools IS use in pursuit of their insane creed, and bringing division in their enemy is exactly what they hope to achieve.

The world must unite. We have the means to achieve this through the UN. Some asses need kicking!

Granny23. In the Bible. 1 Sam 15 v 3. Deut 20 v 16-18. Jer 5 15-17. I think there are more.

Iam64. I think your posts are correct. except the bit about where you muddle the Koran with the Bible.

Nfk. There is only one God. There is the devil and demons and evil forces who cut across all sorts of things.

Families are not united whitewave, let alone the world. Obviously though, it is an admirable stance.

It is the only response. Make no mistake these attacks by IS both in Europe, Africa, Indonesia, India, the airways, and so on, - each time they happen will mean that many more misguided young will join their ranks. The world has the means it now needs the intelligence to understand what is needed to squash these worms in our midst.

They must be tackled at a practical and psychological level, with rigour and a sense of purpose.