The one indisputable FACT in this referendum debate

from the Latin 'mare'
'Mare Nostrum' (the Med) and all that although the English Channel was the Oceanus Britannicus - rather a grand name for a narrow stretch of water.
(unless it's changed since I was at school, it was a long time ago )

Oh, x posts again.

Pax Romana

I think Gove lost that one, whitewave.
"Wolf in sheep's clothing". He shouldn't have kept mentioning all the things the government had done wrong when he's been part of it for all six years. He certainly shouldn't have kept going on about his dad's business.

He lost it a bit then - he was quite peeved!

Just looking at article 50. Apparently when/if we invoke it the other 27 will get together without the UK and decide terms. We then wi be clef in as it were and told the terms - we can then start to negotiate.

I wonder if once the negotiations are complete whether it will be put to us as a referendum?

If he thought the Guardian shouldn't hound a 79 year old man, he shouldn't have mentioned the man. Of course they are going to check up on his dad after that. Anyway, who would take Gove at his word.

Oh I've read a bit further Not possible. But what it does make clear is that Brussels holds all the cards. Something that we signed up to. I don't think the balance of power in Brussels favour can be overestimated.

Yep- ignore article 50 at your peril- there will be no chance at all to negotiate anything with the rest of the EU, I'm afraid.

Just seen a Fulfact on Gove's speech. Then I realised it was from 18th April. Even the phrasing was the same!

openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the-mechanics-of-leaving-the-eu-explaining-article-50/

@Jalima

From what I know of the fishing industry, the UK also had/has huge trawlers which empty the sea where the operate, so it wasn't just other countries (EU or not). Iceland isn't in the EU. If they'd all been allowed to carry on, the fish stocks would have died out.

From what I remember and have read, the Conservative government at the time didn't fight hard enough for the UK fishing industry and didn't get a very good deal. My understanding is that the rules were relaxed a few years ago.

What really gets me about fishing is that Farage was on the EU fishing committee for three years and only attended one of 42 meetings. He didn't even TRY to do anything. Apparently, UKIP's policy is not to take part in anything which will affect (even benefit) the UK, so why accept the role and the associated benefits and not let somebody who would have tried to improve the situation have a go? He sacrificed the UK fishing industry for those three years for a principle.

I wish Bob Geldorf [sp]had mentioned this today when he was shouting at Farage on the Thames. He is on Question Time tomorrow, I believe....I hope he has that information and uses it then. I don't understand how people can talk about the EU not being democratic and yet, at the same time pay so much attention to Farage, who isn't even an elected MP now.

But he's going to be made a lord by Boris when he becomes PM.

Just noticed that Eddie Izzard is going round university campuses trying to drum up votes for remain. Good idea.

Brilliant. The Brexit bus got a parking ticket in Harrogate.

I wish Bob Geldorf [sp]had mentioned this today
Just noticed that Eddie Izzard is going round university campuses trying to drum up votes for remain
I wish these comedians and pop stars would just shut up

theconversation.com/selling-up-settling-down-how-a-turkish-neighbourhood-adapted-to-its-syrian-refugees-60738

Lots of Syrians want to stay in Turkey. They do not want to come here.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/leave-now-harrogate-council-slaps-a-parking-ticket-on-boris-brexit-bus-1-7928520

Comedians and popstars have votes. Why should they not give their views any more than anyone on here?

Maybe you are just jealous because the leave campaign can't get enough performers for their pop festival, for the third time. BpopLive has been shut down. Leave.EU say it was by the spiteful Electoral Commission, but it was because a number of artists dropped out after finding out what it was for.

Why should they not give their views any more than anyone on here?
But they like to tell everyone!!! Very loudly and forcefully and demean anyone who has a different point of view. They think they are right because they think they are more important than the ordinary person.

Maybe you are just jealous because the leave campaign can't get enough performers for their pop festival
For the umpteenth time, I am not a Brexiteer!!!
pop festival, what pop festival

Just because I can't stand these slebs with their over-inflated egos doesn't mean to say that I want to come out of the EU!

Why should they not give their views any more than anyone on here?
Oh, yes, I see what you mean, there is a similarity between them and some posters

infacts.org/elect-government-without-manifesto/

ukandeu.ac.uk/the-perils-of-perception-and-the-eu/

This shows how mistaken some of our views on the EU are.

Jalima

If the country votes to leave, what's the betting that Brussels will suddenly offer us a good deal? Quite likely IMHO.

Have you read article 50 rose ? you may then need to revise your statement.

Article 50 may go out of the window ( defenestration ) if we vote to leave there may be panic in Brussels, and who knows what may happen.