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The one indisputable FACT in this referendum debate

(338 Posts)
Anya Tue 14-Jun-16 11:18:34

Like many of us, I prefer to deal in facts, not surmise, assumptions, or what might be, or might not happen. The truth is that neither side have a clear idea of what leaving or remaining in the EU might entail, except for one clear fact.

This is, that if we remain, we will continue to have no control over numbers of immigrants from the EU, entering the country.

We all agree that immigration is a Good Thing, but uncontrollable immigration is another issue completely.

obieone Wed 15-Jun-16 17:31:05

The date of the article I can find is 6 June. Is that the one you mean?

rosesarered Wed 15-Jun-16 17:31:27

Yes Anya another thread bites the dust indeed.

varian Wed 15-Jun-16 17:31:32

Too many people talk in slogans which were coined by politicians or journalists to act as a useful smokescreen.

The ridiculous slogan "project fear" was coined two years ago by supporters of the Scottish separatists who wanted to break up the UK. Warnings about the likely affect of the fall in the price of oil were dismissed as scaremongering - and yet they have been totally vindicated. The Scottish economy would be in a dire state were it not still part of the UK and given Barnet subsidies beyond the wildest dreams of people in the rest of the country.

We are seeing the same nonsensical sloganising used again. The Leave campaign use these meaningless slogans and dismiss the warnings without any thought for the consequences. Don't be fooled. Weigh up the evidence and heed the warnings before it is too late.

obieone Wed 15-Jun-16 17:32:58

I find I am having to question a lot of stuff now.

rosesarered Wed 15-Jun-16 17:33:07

Well, Granjura perhaps Anya didn't expect a load of pompous twaddle ( but I did) and it always happens on these threads.
One week to go thank God.

Tegan Wed 15-Jun-16 17:36:45

One persons pompous twaddle is another persons informed information. Depends who you are and how you read it, I guess. I've learned quite a lot about politics on gransnet but, boy oh boy have I learned a lot more about human nature sad.

rosesarered Wed 15-Jun-16 17:39:38

I think we may all say that Tegan

rosesarered Wed 15-Jun-16 17:40:00

In fact, it may be the only thing we can all agree on.

granjura Wed 15-Jun-16 17:43:59

roses- I kept very much away- as I did expect it too. As Tegan says so well though, whose twaddle depends very much on your own perceptions.

No-one can expect to post here on such important issues and expect not to be challenged on so-called 'facts' or opinions.

rosesarered Wed 15-Jun-16 17:49:19

I certainly agree with your last sentence GJ I don't think anyone expects not to be challenged.The manner of challenging though, is another matter.

Tegan Wed 15-Jun-16 17:50:02

'WW how can anyone NOT vote Brexit! there will be rather a lot of us voting that way come next week.'
well, roses...as I've mentioned before, those of us whose children have been advised by their employers that a 'Leave' vote could result in them no longer being in employment will vote to stay in.

Ana Wed 15-Jun-16 17:53:56

So just for purely selfish reasons, then?

rosesarered Wed 15-Jun-16 17:54:08

That is up to you Tegan but you can't expect everybody to vote to remain because of that.I have based my vote on what I see ( as do a lot of others) on what is in the best interests of the UK for a long time to come, no self interest in it.
I realise that you will vote that way for a reason ( worry about their jobs) but there are other things to consider ( for me.)

jinglbellsfrocks Wed 15-Jun-16 18:01:38

My remark a while ago had more to do with accusing others of trying to derail a thread. Nothing to do with views expressed by anyone.

jinglbellsfrocks Wed 15-Jun-16 18:02:42

That's if anyone's interested. Which I doubt. smile]

jinglbellsfrocks Wed 15-Jun-16 18:02:57

[

Welshwife Wed 15-Jun-16 18:04:07

Looking on the money site XE which gives the mid point exchange rates the £ Sterling has gone from costing 65p per $ to 70p within about four days. The

whitewave Wed 15-Jun-16 18:04:49

That's always happening -derail I mean. The trick is to pretend it doesn't exist.

Welshwife Wed 15-Jun-16 18:06:45

The € has gone from being 75p to 79.88 in the last few days. I keep a good eye on the two currencies as the exchange rate affects us all the time. The Euro was only 70p a few weeks ago and the $ about 62p

Welshwife Wed 15-Jun-16 18:07:25

It affects every single item I buy on a daily basis!!!

obieone Wed 15-Jun-16 18:10:02

So it was 6 June whitewave. Which you knew. Sigh.

Welshwife, that is just the Euro and you are talking about 4 days worth. I cannot be bothered to look up which 4 days.

rosesarered Wed 15-Jun-16 18:11:58

Sterling goes up and down all the time!

obieone Wed 15-Jun-16 18:12:32

If you had not known it was 6 June,you would have said so.

whitewave Wed 15-Jun-16 18:13:06

Sorry obieone?

Not 6th June but today. As is welshwifes facts over the last 4 days

It is what is happening as the fear of Brexit grips the money markets.

Tegan Wed 15-Jun-16 18:29:03

'So just for purely selfish reasons, then?'
..no, not selfish. these are huge, multinational companies; it's not just my family that I'm thinking of. And, not just the companies themselves but the subsidiary [sp]companies that will go down with them. Rolls Royce and Bombardier 'are' Derby...I dread to think what will happen if they relocate.