Gransnet forums

News & politics

Jean-Claude Juncker can go away and eat his words. (This is a moving on thread)

(62 Posts)
jinglbellsfrocks Sat 25-Jun-16 09:57:37

He cannot be allowed to dictate to us when we start the leaving process.

The British people have had a referendum. That is internal politics. Yes, the result with have an effect on the EU, but we are fully entitled to start this when our Prime Minister feels the time is right. Our decision entirely.

Back off Juncker. We will do it our way. And it will be as amicable as we choose to make it.

whitewave Sat 25-Jun-16 10:00:38

You would like to think so wouldn't you jing? But this is a mess if our own making and you can't be surprised if those who are going to be most affected don't tell us to get a move on so that they can begin to deal with the fallout.

Riverwalk Sat 25-Jun-16 10:06:53

Juncker is a joke. Scroll down and watch the brief video - it's hilarious! hmm


I can't blame the EU for wanting us to get on with Brexit - it's causing turmoil in world markets.

sunseeker Sat 25-Jun-16 10:09:49

I think the majority of people who voted Leave want to get on with the Brexit as well. This is going to take a number of years so the sooner we get started the better.

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 25-Jun-16 10:11:38

We need to ignore him. Let DC do what he can in the next few weeks, although, God knows, he can't have much spirit left for it at the moment. They cannot be allowed to start dictating to us. Both sides are set to be losers to some degree. If we're going to be 'great' we need to keep our dignity now.

M0nica Sat 25-Jun-16 10:21:31

jbf We cannot decide to resign from a club and then expect to decide how we do it. That is in the hands of the remaining club members.

We are either in the EU or out. If we are out we go back to square one. From 1 Jan 2017, or whenever our subscription expires we should be be treated like any other country which has no special arrangements with the EU and our government, who I hope will be run by those who supported exit, can negotiate the best deal they can get, which I suspect will be a lot less generous than they fondly believe.

If I was one of the other remaining states in the EU I would see no reason to give us an inside track into the club we had decided to leave.

whitewave Sat 25-Jun-16 10:25:01

DC will be busy trying to make sure Johnson doesn't get the premiership

NanaandGrampy Sat 25-Jun-16 10:32:28

No wonder we're leaving when this is an example of EU bully boy tactics. We should not let ourselves be forced to move faster than we want to. We have made our decision , we can invoke article 50 when we want . After all - they can't MAKE us do anything.

I think its eminently sensible to wait for the politics to settle down before moving forward. Let the dust settle I say.

whitewave Sat 25-Jun-16 10:41:51

What utter nonsense nana what about decency and allowing the other to move on and try to pick up the pieces left by our decision. As I said on another thread this decision isn't just about us it has affect 500million others.

M0nica Sat 25-Jun-16 10:46:00

nana I refer you to my post just above yours. You cannot resign from something and then decide when and how you want to go.

Riverwalk Sat 25-Jun-16 10:50:11

The dust will not settle soon NanaandGrampy - we are now at the mercy of Tory Party in-fighting and jostling for power, the reason for the Referendum in the first place.

It was telling that DC's resignation speech even had to refer to the Tory party conference!

So the whole of the UK and EU are at the mercy of a bunch of backbench Euro-sceptics.

Luckygirl Sat 25-Jun-16 10:53:57

Well of course you can! We have not yet resigned from it - we have just decided that this is the way forwards. When we are ready we will proceed.

It is just like belonging to any other club (e.g.a golf club). You might decide among yourselves at home that you wish to leave, but the actual decision as to when and how you make that concrete rests with you and not the golf club.

Just because the decision process has been very public and not a decision between individuals at home this does not make the procedure any different. We will set it all in train when we choose. That's fine.

Luckygirl Sat 25-Jun-16 10:54:38

That was addressed to M0nica.

whitewave Sat 25-Jun-16 10:57:35

And you think that is a decent and moral way to proceed * luck*? What about the 500 million who are waiting to rebuild after the utter mess of our making. Don't they have the moral high ground? I think they do

M0nica Sat 25-Jun-16 11:06:49

Most clubs, if a member declares so publicly they are going and that they do not want to belong to the club and think it is badly run etc etc, will tell you in no uncertain terms to go and refuse your subscription if you try to renew for another year. That is the situation the UK is now in.

If we have decided to leave we should leave. We have been inundated with arguments about how damaging membersip of the EU is to our economy, our health and our welfare, and a majority of the population agree with these arguments. Why on earth should we want to stay in it one second longer than necessary?

granjura Sat 25-Jun-16 11:13:13

Of course Monica is right. You can dislike Junker as much as you want (and I do)- but this is the reality out there. Brexit has huge consequences for Europe as a whole- and now the decision is taken- I can't blame the other EU countries for saying 'you made your choice- cause immensed turmoi and upset to our institutions and all the countries assigned to it- so GO and go now'.

As some of us have tried to say again and again, Article 50 to which the UK is a signatory- means that the UK cannot ba law negotiate anything with the EU as an outgoing member. It will have to wait for the other EU countries to decided if they want to negotiate or not, and on which terms. We have lost our say altogether once OUT.

Luckygirl Sat 25-Jun-16 11:16:51

Because there is a procedure to follow - we are not throwing our toys out of the pram and telling the EU to go hang; we are negotiating a different relationship with them and that takes time. It is not all black and white - that has been one of the major flaws of this campaign and what I have found so depressing. We are not setting out to hate the EU and all it stands for; we are just saying that the direction it is going in is not one that we feel happy with.

We do deals with the US, but deprecate its gun laws etc. - that does not stop us being a good neighbour.

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 25-Jun-16 11:19:04

Monca yes we can.

Nonnie1 Sat 25-Jun-16 11:20:43


what a sensible erudite post in a sea of negativity.

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 25-Jun-16 11:21:30

Or rather, we can notify them of our decision when we are ready to proceed with leaving. They have not been officially informed yet.

granjura Sat 25-Jun-16 11:40:21

Luckygirl- have you read article 50? It is very clear- a country that leaves has NO right to negotiate anything, NONE. The other countries can then decide if they want to negotiate or not, and what they want to negotiate or not. It is very clear, and has always been.

If a club is seriously affected by the very loud and rumbling criticisim, and lies- of a member- which is affecting THEIR running and members and the reputation and prosperity of the club- they will ask for the decision to be made quickly to stop negative effect and begin to rebuild.

Jalima Sat 25-Jun-16 11:43:53

He was very rude to Katya Adler (European Editor of the BBC)

When the BBC's Katya Adler asked European Commission President, Jean-Claude Juncker, whether the UK's vote to leave the EU was "the beginning of the end of the European Union", she received a short answer

He said 'No' but it was a throwaway comment made very rudely as he walked away.
If this is typical of the man perhaps Brexit is not so bad after all (never thought I would say that!)

Sour grapes and possibly worried about what this may unleash throughout Europe.

Jalima Sat 25-Jun-16 11:44:57

Luckygirl very sensible post

granjura Sat 25-Jun-16 11:45:21

Article 50 has little to do with Juncker, at all- it is the Treaty we signed up to, willingly and clearly. Uncertainty and delay is hugely damaging to the UK- but some will say, tough they made the choice.... but it is hugely damaging to other EU countries, and all who trade with them too:

Here is what is spelled out explicitly in Article 50:

A government must trigger the article by officially notifying the EU of its intention to leave. Then there is a two-year period in which the terms of the leaver’s exit are negotiated. During this time Britain would no longer be able to take part in any EU decision-making, and any exit agreements must be approved by all 27 remaining EU nations and the European Parliament. Then after Britain’s formal exit, fresh negotiations can begin on any new trade deals.

But crucially, there is no timescale or mention of when to trigger Article 50 after a referendum, leaving many politicians worried about a long period of uncertainty.
Read more
What is Article 50? How long will it take for Britain to leave the EU?

“The negotiations must immediately start,” said Manfred Weber, chairman of the centre-right European People’s Party.

“The most important thing is that we do this very quickly – we need to avoid a long period of uncertainty. The European continent cannot be occupied by an internal Tory Party battle over who will be the next leader of the Tory Party and the next Prime Minister of Great Britain.”

David Cameron however has hinted that it may be the job of whoever succeeds him to trigger Article 50, and Jan Techau, the director of the Carnegie Europe think tank, says there would be little the other EU nations could do to prevent that.

“The ball is in the British court – they need to decide how procedurally they want to run this,” he told The Independent.

NanaandGrampy Sat 25-Jun-16 11:45:33

well now the member states are 'demanding' we leave. I stand by my comment... this is indicative of the very nature of our previous relationship with the EU - they demand and we do as we're told.

And maybe - just maybe that's why the majority of voters decided against being in this club smile