Farage

I am beginning to think that I live in a different England to some of the people on here.

I don't live in a world where we have cleaners, gardeners, nannies...The EU migrants I've met are, like the rest of us, doing jobs that keep our society going - working in shops and offices, in the factories and the hospitals, or running small businesses, like our friend Pyotr who is a car mechanic. They haven't come here to impose their culture on us, "the indigenous people", but to live peacefully alongside us, as have other migrants before them. My city is one of the most racially mixed in the UK and there has been no imposition of one culture on another. There has also been very little racial tension, although there have been a few incidents since the Brexit vote. These incidents were, incidentally, aimed at Asian people, who have no connection to the EU but have been informed by racists that they now must "go home."

Australia keeps being mentioned, so it is maybe worth remembering that they have an appalling record of abuse against non-white people, from the Aboriginal people to those would-be migrants currently held in detention camps, where conditions have been so bad that some of the detainees were helped to escape by Australians ashamed of what was being done in their names. In the past week, allegations of torture of detainees has emerged. Do we really want to model ourselves on the Australian way?

Stop playing games thatbags- please. Or might just have to say that i'd rather someone was hysterical in the current situation- than disingenuous- truly.

Now would it be racist to say the reason so many foreigners are coming is to do the jobs just too many Brits are not prepared, or able to do?

Usually the ones that complain loudest.

Same here in Switzerland btw.

Just wish he would go away altogether can't we banish to Australia?

Glad to leave the EU..it was a corrupt 40 year old out of date cartel.

Where is the freedom in that ?

Er I didn't think it was about freedom...

Am I the only one who is actually reluctant to declare the fact that they voted out in the referendum? Judging by the reactions from the the remain campaigners I feel as though I should be ashamed to have made the decision I and 17 million others in this country made! I wonder if the result had been the other way round whether the leavers would have rounded on the retainers in such a vitriolic way - I think not.

Oh, they would. Each side is as human as the other.

Now would it be racist to say the reason so many foreigners are coming is to do the jobs just too many Brits are not prepared, or able to do?

No, I don't think so, gj. Would you regard that as racist? Whether it's true or not is, as before, a separate matter.

Bluecat, it has not been my suggestion that we model ourselves on the Australians, many of whom originated in the UK of course. There are a lot of Chinese and other Asians working in Australia now, I understand. A Malaysian penfriend of mine from school days moved there after completing her nurses' training. Sadly we lost touch. I'd love to know how she's getting on.

I think Europeans who want to move to Australia are treated the same way as people from other parts of the world. So long as a rule applies equally to everyone, wherever they happen to come from, I don't think a rule is racist or any other -ist.

elegran, I'm not sure I agree. Remain expected to win. Even Brexiters thought Remain would win. So I think the sense of disappointment Brexiters would have felt had they lost the vote would not have been felt quite so deeply. Obviously I could be wrong, but I think it quite likely Remain is taking it harder.

Speculation of course, like much else in this field.

The Turks would have come - a lot of people aren't happy about the thousands and thousands due to come over from 5 countries of completely different cultures from our own - that's one of the reasons Brexit prevailed.

How do you work that one out? Some Turks might have come illegally, because our Border Control is not good, but not in their millions. Turkey is not likely to be part of the EU for decades.

In any case, there are already over two million Turks in Germany, which would be their preferred destination.

BJ labelled Remainers as promoting Project Fear. I don't think so!

What's wrong with people from different 'cultures' coming to the UK because their own countries have been ruined? We're all part of the human race.

How do the Brexit voters feel now 2 of their leaders (Boris and Farage) have scarpered? And how will they feel when Gove follows them?

Willow500 - no I don't think you can be the only one (who is reluctant to declare that they voted Leave), because this discussion forum seems quite one-sided, given that over half of us (including me) voted Leave - there is something odd going on. I remain convinced that we should get out of the EU. I am neither stupid nor uneducated (though the third characteristic sometimes levelled at part of the constituency that swung the vote does apply - I live in the north of England). I am a grown-up, and so will put to one side the unpleasant sense I get from those of my fellow countrymen and women who in their anger appear to be dismissing my vote, but I wish it wasn't the case.

Sadly, I don't think that all people are treated alike in Australia, as the grim accounts of the detention centres indicate. There is also deep-seated racism towards the Aboriginal people, which is a bit ironic as they were the original inhabitants! Obviously, not all Australians are racist - far from it - but it is hardly a shining light as far as the immigration issue is concerned.

Regarding the question of whether there would have been a similar outcry if Remain had won, there are two things to consider. One is that people who oppose the EU have hardly been reticent about their opinions in the past and I doubt they would have been in the future. The second, and more important, point is that a Remain vote would have been a vote for the status quo. Nothing would have changed, and we would still have the opportunity to change our minds at any time in the future. However, the Leave vote means major changes, with serious implications for our standard of living, our role in world politics and the possibility of future divisions - and maybe conflict - in Europe. In addition, there is no way back, once the process begins. Of course the Remainers are agitated, because there seems every possibility that the future changes will be largely negative and we can't change our minds, unless every other country in the EU agrees to take us back.

Good points, bluecat.

No Willow I declared myself as an outer on another thread that was running just after the result was made known. One poster gave a link for anyone wanting a T shirt declaring their vote to remain so I asked if there were any for those who'd voted to leave and was very kindly told where I could get hold of one.

OK TBH it was to wind up Mr. S. who voted to stay but I would have been happy to get him a a remain one as well.

I see that Doversole has also declared. I wasn't swayed by either side of the debate, I was leaning toward a leave vote from the very beginning and TBH I don't know how anyone could have been persuaded by either campaign. They were both really badly run and I do sympathise with those who didn't vote because they didn't know what to vote for. I wonder how many of the 13 plus million who didn't vote, felt the same way.

I agree that not all people are treated alike in Aus. Bluecat, I can't honestly think of a country where everyone is. I favour the points system that they have for those wishing to live and work there which doesn't apply to Aboriginal people as they're there anyway.

Our DS and his wife had to fulfill the criteria to work and live out there as would we if we wished to retire in Aus. and have to do just to go and visit them.

It's still very early days, we're still EU members and haven't even begun negotiations when things change. I just wish all of the negativity would quieten down 'we're doomed, we're doomed'; if we're note careful that is going to become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Oh yes, this thread is about Farage standing down well he's booked his place in the history books and I wouldn't be surprised if he's remembered for a lot longer than many.

Just thinking. The Aboriginies are the indigenous people of Australia but the immigrants changed the culture.

The current culture is very unbalanced, because Australia had an All White policy until the 1970s.

@ smileless

I will probably always think the decision to leave was wrong, but I guess only time will tell.

I think the decision to have the referendum on a straight majority was a stupid idea and the campaigns were appalling. They seemed more like Great British Bake Off or Big Brother rather than a serious discussion about a major constitutional change.

What I really object to is people telling me to 'get over it' or 'suck it up' when they continue to tell lies about millions of Turks, hordes of immigrants 'stealing our jobs', 'getting our borders back and the rest of the baloney. It's not true, never was and until such people look for the truth, I'm never going to be happy with the decision.

PS. I clicked too soon.

I cannot believe the cheek of Farage now complaining that the government won't guarantee the future of EU nationals living in the UK and ex-pats living abroad.

Of course no guarantees can be made and he really should have sought assurances before starting his meddling.

Farage was leader of the UK independent party, now UK is independent, as far as he is concearned his job is done.

You wish!

He's still at it today. Apparently he now sees it as his mission to make sure the UK negotiates the right exit.