Retiring judge warns women who get drunk

Jayanna, if they had sex with her without her consent then that would be rape.

Have you seen the Tea analogy that explains consent, it's very good.

I would always aim for enthusiastic consent, checking sex is consensual isn't tricky. Consensual sex fine, non consensual sex is rape.

Sometime people enthusiastically agree to sex then regret it, that's not rape as it was consensual at the time.

As a rule I think that if someone is very drunk then I would not have sex with them, like in my Benedict Cumberbatch example. If a man was really drunk then I would avoid sex with them.

As a rule always go for enthusiastic consent, way more fun too!

Surely if a man were so drunk he could hardly move, he wouldn't be able to 'get it up' anyway, so you'd find it hard work trying to have sex with him!

Interesting link Lumpy.

In the first three examples, it seems like the women said no or meant no quite late.

So I ma left wondering if the men that became rapists chose not to control themselves.

I do think the campaign, no means no is/was a good one.

The link has also left me thinking whether men drinking more than they used to in one session has helped to contribute to it all. But perhaps that has always been so.

Good point Ankers.

The reddit thread I linked to with the rapists talking goes into that Ankers. Also, I said it was triggering as I am aware that there could be people reading who have been raped, reading an article made up of comments from rapists could be upsetting, it seemed the polite thing to do is all.

Sometime ago on the news, it showed a young woman, roaring drunk, her top round her waist, her skirt(?!!) pulled up around her bosom, waving her thong round her head, gyrating away showing bum, genitals and all she had. She was surrounded by other equally inebriated young women and a group of jeering young men egging her and the other girls on!
Why anyone would need to behave like this to have a good time is beyond me and always would have been, but I have a nasty feeling that somebody in that crowd would have kindly seen this young lady home!!!
I just felt despair!

She was certainly enthusiastic, initiating it but clearly off her head. So prosecution would argue not able to give consent because of the effect of alcohol on her judgement. Therefore rape. But are the men able to argue not able to refuse because of the effect of alcohol on their judgement? Does it only work one way?
Ana, umm it doesn't always work like that..........

Heard a woman on radio yesterday who had been raped in these circumstances. She said of course the rapist was to blame, but equally she knew her state made her attractive to the very bad man she had the bad luck to bump into. Her point was that there will always be some bad people on the lookout for vulnerable women, even if the majority of men are decent and no matter how much relationship & sex education you give people.

The young people clearly thought it a huge joke! As previously stated, I felt despair!

I have read the comments and tend to agree on with the majority however I would like to ask LSP how old she is? And if she is a grandparent or even if fact a parent I also think that that the reason she so single minded about this is because you are more close to this than you care to admit?
I have 2 sons and 1 daughter in there 20's & 30's and when they became old enough we instilled it in to them to walk away from trouble and our daughter we collected her or one other parents did this stops them getting to DRUNK!!

Come on LSP admit it, you're a good time 20 something who regularly gets completely legless and doesn't see why you should take any responsibility for any consequences of such behaviour

sweetcakes if you are so sure your children have never ever had a drunken night out you are either living in cloud cuckoo land or you have very unusual children. I would reckon most young people in their 20s and 30s have had such an experience but haven't told their parents.
Why does LSP's age matter or if she is a GP or a P? She is of course absolutely right, non-consensual sex is rape. Men should not assume consent and should make absolutely certain before they proceed. If someone is incapable of giving consent for any reason then the man should stop. The trouble is that we still persist in giving mixed messages to our young men making them think that women actually want to be treated badly.

I'm a mother sweetcakes, not a grandparent yet.

You either believe that someone is responsible for a crime committed against them or you don't,obviously I don't but other people think the opposite.

You either think that the judges comments are helpful or you don't, obviously I don't. I find that they add nothing and may prevent women coming forward.

Of course it's the rapist's fault-full stop. However folks really do need to take responsibility for their own actions. If being so drunk that they don't know what they're doing then obviously they are leaving themselves open to all sorts, rape, robbery, violence. . . Think the judge spoke to much needed common sense and, no doubt, from much experience.
We teach our only young DGS, btw, that no means no, even when he's just playing/rough housing with his sisters. Starting young. . . . and all that

The judge was very clear - wear what you like, go where you like, get drunk if you like but understand this might put you in danger. It's the same for blokes who are drunk - they are more likely to be run over, choke on their own vomit, fall out of a window or off a balcony and finally be accused of rape whatever their intentions. Why don't we all just keep control of our own bodies?

I feel we should know about LSP after all she can have her opinion and so can I.

Rigby46 it's nice to see you can make a joke out of it I bet we all had a good laugh at it ?
Trisher I under no illusion that they probably have been drunk but not rat arsed to point that they don't know what they are the doing, she has good friends and they all looked after one another and no one is left alone. And how dare you call my children unusual they all balanced adults and been brought to be aware of their surroundings and that this world is not a fair place. I don't advocate rape or abuse from one human being to another

Why is calling your children "unusual" such an insult? Being 'rat-arsed' is today part of youth culture. Most young people do it.That is usual not to do it is therefore "unusual"
Had the judge spoken out about the problems with alcohol for all people there would be no discussion, but she chose to deal with women and ignore men.

Rigby46 I am soooo busted!

If all women stayed at home and followed all the rules would the rape stats go down? Damn, there is that pesky problem that 90% of rapists are men that are known to the victim. Women will only be safe when society takes rape seriously.

Hi Trisher, sweetcakes "unusual" daughter here. Believe me I've had my fair share of drunken nights out, I've had fun and payed for it the day after BUT heres the thing, I go out enjoy myself and don't get to a point where I make myself vulnerable. So is it unusual to be actually aware of my surroundings and what happening around me? I don't want my friends or myself to be another statistic. So Trish if having common sense makes me and my brothers unusual then maybe we are. But let's face it were safe. So what's your problem? Before you say anything I'm not fighting mums battles because believe me she can do that herself. I feel like I had to say my piece as your making comments towards me that aren't really needed

If all women stayed at home and followed all the rules would the rape stats go down? Damn, there is that pesky problem that 90% of rapists are men that are known to the victim

Yes. A resounding yes.

Hugely.

Me, I'm frustrated that LSP keeps dodging my questions. Actually, before you jump on me, I've argued her side of the case more than once and with less good humour and grace! But, if being drunk means that women are not responsible for their actions why doesn't that apply to men? Could you say that a drunken man was coerced (since we don't have female to male rape) when he was in a a state when he could not refuse. Would the sex act between a man and a woman when drunk always be the mans responsibilty? Is the thinking that sex is always what aman does to a woman? Thie arguments have to be a lot clearer and definitely not avoided!

Well I didn't bring you into this scs'daughter so have a word with her.
It is well known that alcohol affects risk perception, so what seems safe is often not so. I don't have a 'problem' but have obviously touched a nerve somewhere. If you object to this it isn't my fault you were brought in as an example, I simply commented on that.

I find that they add nothing and may prevent women coming forward.
Or, in fact, make women think twice before becoming totally inebriated or out of it on drugs?
Perhaps?

The judge meant it as a kindly warning to all young women as she jailed two rapists.

BrRedhead Absolutely!