Brexit - the end of the beginning - the negotiations begin

Actually Germany made two terrible mistakes Margaret

But we won't 'mention the war' as Basil Fawlty used to say.

Sad rather than furious - they have got used to our whining ways and will be missing that!

MargaretX
I hope I've never given the impression that I dislike Europe, especially Germany.
I have visited every country in Europe and Germany comes high on the list of favourite.
What I do dislike with a passion is the European Union.

There was a cartoon I saw, can't remember where, with a man reading a list of how much it costs to leave the EU, and then saying '"Much like gym membership, then."

Sadly, we are as roadkill after Brexit, and the vultures are circling already.
Big business will offer us jobs but only if we use their regulations, and we will have no choice...no change, no jobs. . Workers rights will be taken apart, farms will be decimated and will become mega intensive farms.
But it's ok, we'll have blue passports back, and something called "sovereignty"
Which no one seems able to explain.....Sorry if I seem totally fed up, but really can't see this turning out well at all!

I object to being called bigoted and brain dead! How rude! I want to be ruled by my own government not one I didn't vote for in Brussels! I have lived in a dozen other countries and value the U.K democracy. More people voted with me to Leave than Remain. Is that all you can offer? Name calling?

Who called you that?

Paddyann

Margaret many of us agree with most of what you say but the separation negotiations are not simply a matter of applying a few rules we all agreed. For example, there was no agreed process which insisted that trade talks must wait until separation terms are agreed. It's just that that order of things works better for the EU. Nor is the calculation of the UK's leaving bill just a matter of adding up a list of items and figures sent to us by the Commission. The EU is rightly looking after its own. I voted remain, have a great deal of respect for the Union (albeit that it is a long, long way from perfect), but we now have to look out for ourselves. We are in a weak position (of our own making) but the EU can't expect us to sit quietly and wait for the next instruction as to how negotiations will proceed. We are not in another Galaxy as Juncker suggests, but, for the purposes of these negotiations, we are not to be treated as though we are still a member. Did the TTIP negotiations proceed via instructions from the Commission to Obama? I wonder how Trump will take to that process?

She didn't call you that. That was your first post, wasn't it, so how could she call you that?

She called all Brexiteers bigoted and brain dead!

I guess the answer, Annofarabia, is that it was nothing personal!

durhamjen
Twisting words again. paddyann called all leavers bigoted and brain dead.

She did, I come into that category as well and I'm equally offended. I too have some fantastic friends in Europe who are still visited on a regular basis, but like petra hate the EU and their arrogant bullying attitude to other nations smaller, weaker and inevitably totally dependent on them with no hope of escape, with a deep dislike and scepticism. Why are they so worried that other country's might want to leave? Surely if they are so wonderful, why would anyone want to, why would we?!!!! They can't really have much confidence in their own organisation if they're really concerned about others trying to escape.

Like someone said on the news tonight, why are so many people surprised that a union is acting like a union?

They thought all reports they would do were scaremongering Jen!!

Absolutely DJ. But others ought to accept we need to stand up for ourselves. We can't just sit back and let them set the agenda, faking looks of incredulity if so much as suggest that we ought to have some say in the process.

"British Prime Minister Theresa May told European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker on Wednesday she wanted a "deep and special relationship" with the European Union, trying to warm the atmosphere before Brexit talks begin."

Should Philip be worried?

Fitzy, 27 of them, 1 of us. Of course they will set the agenda, no matter how much May kicks and screams.

DJ you may well be right as to what will happen in practice give the stinger bargaining position of the EU. But ther is absolutely no point of principle in their favour on this point. Around the negotiating table we are one to one - the EU and the UK. They have no more right to think they have sole custody of process and agenda that we do. But that isn't how they seem to see it. As I've mentioned before, do you think they will attempt to dictate to Trump how trade negotiations will proceed? I know the situation is very different but the principle is the same.

Apologies for the numerous typos - I'm sure you can translate!

This article on the current "war between the galaxies" makes sense to me. Hopefully you will be able to open it, but I have had problems sharing some of these Times articles in the past.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/talking-tough-g8j3qprh7?shareToken=fb482608604463fa369b8fcbfad8ac19

Before any of these talks started it was pointed out that the 'rules' about a country leaving the EU were set out in the same document as the A50 - it actually said that once A50 was triggered the leaving country then had no more input and the remaining members of the EU would meet and decide the manner in which the country would leave - what the deal would be. They would have no input - so the fact that the UK has any input at all is a bonus. I saw these facts a number of times and so they must have made mainstream media.
The UK are causing the upheaval and the EU will allow us to change our minds should we realise how difficult it is and that our position will be nothing like as good as it is now.

WW I hadn't heard that. If there is a legally enforceable agreement we're stuck with it. But if there are any loopholes I would have no qualms about slipping through them. It looks to me as though any agreement can't be that watertight, or Juncker would have been bleating about it all along and no doubt would have waved a copy of the agreement at May over the Downing St. dinner along with the Canadian trade agreement!