What can TM be thinking of?

sunseeker perhaps instead of taking the p* you could post your vision of what the future will be like if TM wins. We have told you ours, time for you to tell us how we will all be driving around in Bentleys...

Ah mon Dieu suzied. How am am I going to earn my daily crust, if foreign languages are banned?

There need to be another £15 billion in cuts. Anybody like to guess how those cuts will be made and whom they will affect?

I have no idea what the future will be like, nobody does. We can all make assumptions (or guess) based on preconceived prejudices. All I am saying is nobody KNOWS. Everyone knew the remainers were going to win the referendum, everyone knew that Trump wouldn't be elected.

We are in a bind here and there is no happy outcome.

If we have May with her aggressive and confrontational approach we are likely to finish up with a very bad deal indeed. She is like someone who has given up smoking and is now an anti-smoking zealot. There is no hope of calm deliberation and a peaceful middle way in the negotiations. She was rabidly anti-Brexit, but the result of the referendum opened the door to power for her and she is prepared to make this volte face in order to hang on to that power.

Those who are fretting about what life under Corbyn might be like can be reassured - it is not going to happen, so it is all idle words.

The only hope we have is that the Lib Dems will gain sufficient seats to curb May's sudden conversion to a hard Brexit and her inability to negotiate in a mature fashion as befits her role. I believe that the Lib Dems did a good job of that during the coalition and that they were unfairly castigated for conceding some points in order to gain others. That is just the way of things and people should have grasped that.

I feel a little like Americans during their election when the choices were between a rock and a hard place. Trump or May, it makes little difference - both are negotiating with other nations via the media, both are hard-liners, both are wedded to power.

Sunseeker I just do the research. That is what the Tories have SAID they will do and a continuation of what they have been doing - I don't need a crystal ball.

GG2

I read the whole article Maizie but I don't feel more enlightened

I just thought it was a less hysterical view than that of the UK RW press.

Sorry, should have read on before answering SS as I see several of you have said the same.

To me it's as plain as the nose on your face but some are obviously asking the magic mirror to show them the picture they want to happen rather than the reality that is to obvious for the half of the country that are not voting for May and some, I imagine who are crossing their fingers while they vote because the only important thing to them is leaving the EU - the people can go to hell in a handcart meanwhile.

I was a more nuanced view Maizie I agree.

I think it would be really useful if someone who wants of May and the Cons politics tells us, based on what they have done and what they have said they will do the realistic possibilities based on fact.

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We can all make assumptions (or guess) based on preconceived prejudices.

I appreciate that that is how a significant portion of the population works/thinks but, contrary to what they think, it is possible to make reasoned predictions based on what has happened in the past and knowledge (gained through study, so often using the knowledge of 'experts') of how institutions/people/societies/economies function and react to particular circumstances.

It is very hard to take the 'opinions' of people who dismiss knowledge and expertise particularly seriously.

Trisher, do you mean Jacob Rees-Mogg? Only William (his father) died back in 2012. Just thought I ask!

Oh I did sorry-senior moment! Jacob anyway he is openly a Tory in favour of a low tax economy which obviously can't support a welfare state.

sunseeker perhaps then you could post your predictions about what will happen if TM gets in. Not asking you to 'know' but you seem absolutely certain that other posters are mistaken in their carefully assessed predictions so you presumable have some idea why they are so wrong? Or is it just blind faith?

I always feel Jacob Rees-Mogg, while feeling the peasants should know their place, would be awfully nice to them with the odd turkey at Christmas, etc.

Oh I did sorry-senior moment! Jacob anyway he is openly a Tory in favour of a low tax economy which obviously can't support a welfare state.

I wonder what would happen if we started a thread asking if we should actually have/be a welfare state? I don't think I dare as I get pretty shocked by some of the posts on here already

Good summary GracesGran.

I put a link on about what will happen in America with the repeal of Obamacare.
I am quite frightened about the consequences for the NHS if May gets her landslide.
The welfare state here is gradually becoming privatised, too.
I think there are lots of people on GN who don't want a welfare state. The DWP thread shows that.

www.planetmagazine.org.uk/planet_extra/One-of-the-Greatest-Political-Con-Tricks-of-the-Modern-Age

GGMK2 I actually really like him and think he is clever and personable with a lot of old-fashioned courtesy and would feed the peasants and treat them fairly (provided they doffed their caps of course).

It fascinates me that some people don't recognise this aspect of the Tory party and think they will allow the Welfare state to continue.

Not blind faith - just willing to admit I don't KNOW and therefore would not post "predictions" All this careful research, where was it done - Labour party website, Guardian newspaper. It is possible to find research to back up any result you want.

Do I have concerns for the future - of course I do - but I cannot believe that the Labour party who my grandparents and parents supported and campaigned for is the best one for this country.

I don't know about a whole turkey. We might get the parson's nose! (and veggies can have a bit of stuffing )

I think it would be a very interesting thread to ask what people think about the welfare state,including state pensions.

Maybe people would be happier if we went back to the pre-war situation - not forgetting all the other services (police, fire service, NHS, state education, border control, environmental controls, etc etc), for which we pay collectively via taxes.

All for oneself - and the devil take the hindmost!?

Yes, it is possible. Look at sites such as the Institute of Fiscal Studies or the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. Or you could look at the Office for National Statistics for raw data and look at trends over time. The London School of Economics publishes regular reports on the state of the economy and society.

The trouble is that most people don't look at the research. They just read the headlines, which are highly selective and depend on the particular writer's agenda. That's why it's so dangerous when politicians manipulate the media. They choose what they want people to know. It's also why some politicians derided "experts". They don't want people to know.

The "careful research" can be done by anyone, so the first thing to do is to check who's done it. Some "think tanks" are biased. There is a league table somewhere of reliability. Generally, ONS data is neutral and academic institutions publish research based on fact and will use accountable research methodology.

Never believe second hand reporting of research without going back to the original research. Ignore second hand reporting if the sources aren't quoted and it can't be checked. Headline writers cherry pick the odd bit of information which suits their agenda.