VERY IMPORTANT NHS News!

That quite often happens on threads about the health service, Nikki.
You'll get used to it.
Someone will start a thread saying how good the NHS was when she/her mother/ her father was in whenever.
They won't notice that it's disappearing until it's gone.
My health centre is owned by Branson. Couldn't do anything about it because we were not told it was happening.

That is my argument exactly!! If and it is a big if the NHS is going to disappear in its present form as appears to be happening in say dj health centre, then I think there should be a national conversation about what we want. The trouble is by avoiding this conversation, in the hope that the worse doesn't happen, the Tories are continuing to sell off lucrative chunks to their friends. It is happening slowly but surely and we on the left are doing bugger all to save it it seems to me.

Totally agree!

Up here we've tried to find out what is going on. We ask for FOI requests and are told it's commercial confidentiality. We are not allowed to find out how much Virgin owns.
This government said it would be open, but it's more secretive than ever before.

Yes our hospital sites are being sold off. Its not just England. The NHS board I worked for had dozens of clinic buildings all over the region which they are keen to 'rationalise' down to larger scale community clinics with hospital type services in them. The main hospital has been built on the outskirts of the city and its old Victorian building in the centre of town sold off for housing.
It's not very convenient for us personally but I can see the rationale behind it. The new location suits the majority of people it's just our luck that it's so far from us!

Exactly!!! Privatisation by stealth.

It seems to me that the right are reconciled to privatisation, but are not entirely confident that they can take the country with them, but they are working on it, be in no doubt. The privatisation that the right envisages will be the stuff of nightmares for the poor and jolly uncomfortable for the middle.

Why isn't the broad left demanding a dialogue?

It's happened in Northumberland. All A&Es closed, a new one built in Cramlington. They have very wide corridors for the trolleys to wait on.Only been open less than two years, and already only 70% of handovers are within time.

I keep composing posts and then deleting them. I shall continue to ponder apparent imponderables to myself. One main problem does seem to be that we are not willing to pay more for our health care. Another is that it's not altogether clear that what we have is the envy of the rest of the developed world at all. I read a post quite recently from someone saying she got better health care in France than she would get here for whatever condition she had.

BTW, dj, I really hadn't heard of STPs. Had to do some googling just now. But I hadn't mentioned that I hadn't heard of them so am puzzled why you mentioned that you couldn't believe I hadn't heard of them. Just saying. It's not really important.

What were handover times like in the places that were shut?

Our closest A&E was shut some years ago. It's a long way to the nearest one now.

Our hospital /clinic closures aren't privatisation by stealth. They are all still free.

Actually, thatbags STPs are vitally important and are driving the future of healthcare provision. They were supposed to consult with "stakeholders" (ie "us") and I did eventually find my STP's consultation documents. I dutifully completed the survey, but I doubt whether anybody took any notice.

For ages, I've been involved in a group trying to resurrect our local hospital. It was really difficult to find out who was responsible for any decision making. Eventually, we did find out, but we were still pushed from pillar to post - "not me guv, try the bloke down the road".

STPs are the latest reorganisation from CCGs. Remember Cameron's claim about "no more top down reorganisation"? We now have the ridiculous situation that all the acute hospitals in our network are further away than the nearest hospital. The road/transport system means that ambulances drive past the nearest hospital to reach the designated ones. We have no out-of-hours care and no mental health services.

If I were to have an accident out of hours, I'm buggered if I'd go to one of the designated hospitals. I'd go to the nearest one and my CCG would have to pay a premium to have me treated there. Well, we've been trying to tell them how ridiculous it is and will cost more in the long run.

I agree they're not privatisation by stealth, but they're not free, because they don't exist. They're not there!

All of which is a sad reflection on our NHS, dd, isn't it?

It certainly is!

But in the whole of Northumberland there only is one A&E, so there's no point in them going to the Wansbeck, or Hexham or Rothbury.
Over an hour from Berwick to Cramlington hospital, providing there are no tractors or slow lorries on the A1, which is still single carriageway for much of that time.

It's not just Northumberland. West Essex has been made to join with North Hertfordshire, which makes a very strange-shaped STP. Our designated hospital is also an hour from where I live - much longer during rush hour. None of the main roads are direct, because all roads from here radiate from London. The train takes over an hour, requires a change and costs £21.10 return (off peak). The nearest hospital is in Cambridge, but it costs GPs extra to refer their patients there, because it's not part of our "network".

This is happening all over the country.

Our wonderful NHS service. Is groaning under ever increasing demands, it is a bottomless pit. Afraid it us unsustainable.

In that case, there needs to be a national discussion about what we want from the NHS. Nearly every other health service in the developed world is better funded. Privatisation won't save it. All that will happen is that those who can afford it will pay and the rest of us will suffer.

There are some hard questions and we need to face up to them.

Daphndill, which ones? NHS treats everyone for everything, anyone that visits our country, those that haven't paid in. I know that from the horses mouth. What other country offers that?. If you go just to Europe with your HIC card it covers you for up to £500, further afield nothing.As we have seen from the news, people come to gave babies, heart transplants and they never get paid, that is only the very expensive treatment, there are many thousands more. I only found this snippet out when I rang to get travel insurance cover, I said that cannot be right and was told, unfortunately it is, we treat first regardless of whether they pay or not.

llegs google the European countries, you can find all that information and admire the way some of their systems work.

bags we actually don't know if we don't want to pay as we haven't talked about it yet. Besides which imagine what we would all have to pay if we went private.

France, Germany, etc etc ... all of them pay more per head for healthcare than we do in the UK. I'm not talking about health tourism. If their treatment is better it's because people pay more. Pensioners pay for health insurance too.

This vlog about the Naylor Report is worth watching, if anybody is really interested in what's going on.

The man presenting it is a bit irritating, but he explains the Naylor Report well.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx3hrpDCct8&app=desktop

To summarise, the family silver is being sold!

Chart showing UK healthcare expenditure per capita compared with a few OECD countries.

Dahne, that video is in the OP. I thought you'd found another one.

Sorry, daphne.